When ministry goes bad

by Richard on September 21, 2011

Dave Warnock asks “Is this the end for Mark Driscoll?”

Watch the video, and you can see why.

Dave describes Driscoll’s presentation as pornographic (you have been warned!), and I see no reason to argue. Clearly Pastor Driscoll needs prayer. And some serious conversation with a superior.

{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Rachel 09.21.11 at 4:10 pm

OK - I’ve stopped at 1 min 32 secs. Couldn’t imagine how he might redeem himself in the unseen 3 minutes and 28 secs. This is very dangerous and abusive stuff. Having come straight out of the context of a Pastoral Visitor’s meeting where we have been prayerfully considering how we offer care to vulnerable people using Jesus as our example, I’m just horrified.

2

David 09.21.11 at 4:35 pm

Just when I think he has plumbed the depths, he goes deeper still… and his acolytes will love it and will emulate him…

3

Tony Buglass 09.21.11 at 5:07 pm

I would not want this man on my pastoral team. Even if what he ’sees’ is true, he has no idea on how to deal with the victims. Revealing/accusing a woman of adultery in the presence of her husband was at best insensitive, at worst abusive and bullying.

As to the source of his ‘gifts’ - I would hesitate to call them Satanic, but I’d also hesitate to define them as a ‘gift of knowledge.’ This is deeply uncomfortable and dark stuff, and he’s handling it with all the finesse of a bulldozer.

4

Richard 09.21.11 at 6:08 pm

> “he’s handling it with all the finesse of a bulldozer”

He appears to be deliberately cultivating that image. Bizarre to my mind but ‘manly’ to his.

5

Robert 09.21.11 at 8:44 pm

He needs a psychiatrist. My wife’s a mental health social worker; she could make the arrangements for him.

6

Richard 09.21.11 at 9:22 pm

But only if his insurance provides mental health care

7

Bob Gilston 09.21.11 at 11:18 pm

He definitely needs counselling

8

Pam 09.21.11 at 11:27 pm

Tony’s sentence “Revealing/accusing a woman of adultery in the presence of her husband was at best insensitive, at worst abusive and bullying” is sort of correct. “Insensitive” can cover a lot of behaviour, but this is seriously damaging stuff to another human being and “insensitive” somehow doesn’t fit the bill. I guess when a lot of people are looking at you and you are a ‘leader’ of some description this can lead to an ego out of control and make a mockery of trust and love.

9

Alan Molineaux 09.22.11 at 12:13 am

I couldn’t actually speak for a short while after hearing this.

At one point he says ‘I would never talk about this’ which is odd because he is talking about it.

It saddens me because many people will emulate his particular brand of lunacy.

On it’s own I would be concerned but added to all the other nonsense he comes out with it becomes a serious worry.

10

Pam 09.22.11 at 12:38 am

Something additional I’d like to share:
In March this year my church was running a six-week Pastoral Care course and I was a participant, even though I was only able to attend three sessions as we were going on holidays at that time. The leader of the course was a retired Anglican minister, a very conservative, gentle man, who, during the three weeks of my attendance told me “Stop interrupting me” “Pam, don’t answer the question first, give someone else a go” and “Stop talking to the person next to you while I’m speaking”. I liked him a lot! He gave some time to helping me catch up the missed sessions and encouraged me to join the Pastoral Care team which I have. I am very grateful to have him in the background to call on when I need him. I don’t agree with great chunks of his theology but that doesn’t matter a jot, I like him very much as a human being.

11

PamBG 09.22.11 at 4:30 am

I agree with all the comments so far.

My added comment is that I actually believe in intuitive gifts and I have no doubt that some people “see” events/facts/conditions and that other people sense them in different ways. I believe that, like any other ability, intuitives have the responsibility to use these gifts for the glory of God.

But I’m not sure I believe Driscoll and I’ll tell you why. If, as an adult victim of child abuse, you ask your abuser “I have no idea if you abused me at age 6, did you?” that abuser isn’t going to say “yes” in a matter-of-fact way unless s/he has strong suspicions that you want in on the abuse now as another perpetrator. As an adult, you are no longer of any sexual interest to the person and they have nothing to gain by admitting the abuse to you.

This does not ring true. It does “ring” of a personality disorder; in my opinion.

12

Pam 09.22.11 at 8:10 am

I like that last paragraph Pam BG. Having watched this awful YouTube “video” carefully again - there’s the pious look, the holier-than-thou attitude. How sad.
But worst of all is an unsettling feeling that a small minority (thankfully) of clergy seem to think they have a right to publicly admonish people when trust has been placed in them. It’s a good story for YouTube, it’s good fodder for a blog - and what they are talking about is another person’s life.
I pray that anything confidential that I am entrusted with by another person when fulfilling pastoral care responsibilities will be treated with the respect and honour that that person deserves.

13

Kim 09.22.11 at 8:54 am

Yes, the clip is exceptionally disturbing. But like we haven’t always known that, with Driscoll, the choice is beween charlatan and psychopath, and that, given his distorted theology and position of power, he is extremely dangerous?

14

Pam 09.22.11 at 9:12 am

“But like we haven’t always known that, with Driscoll, the choice is between charlatan and psychopath, and that, given his distorted theology and position of power, he is extremely dangerous?”

Then it seems a little tame to say “He needs prayer. And a serious conversation with a superior” at the start of the post. Indeed, a serious conversation with a superior who may be unqualified to handle a charlatan/psychopath. And I would suggest that the person maligned by him also needs prayer.
What a mess the Catholic Church in Australia (and elsewhere) has made of the sexual abuse scandal by trying to handle the issue internally. And I still think they don’t have much of a clue what they’re dealing with.

15

Tony Buglass 09.22.11 at 9:12 am

Pam: ““insensitive” somehow doesn’t fit the bill”

I’m English. It’s the gentle art of understatement. ;) My point was that if I were counselling a married couple, and that was an issue I suspected, I’d ask to see them individually to explore it further. If she admitted an affair to me, I’d want to ask how she proposed to deal with it with her husband - it’s up to them to accept or deny it, not my responsibility to drag it into the open and hit them with it. But then, that’s because I would want to counsel, not control. Unlike Driscoll.

16

Richard 09.22.11 at 9:49 am

> “…it seems a little tame to say “He needs prayer. And a serious conversation with a superior”

Tame - yes. It could have been put more robustly. I’m not even sure that Driscoll has any superiors to which he is accountable.

17

Pam 09.22.11 at 9:57 am

Tony - nicely put. If you are ever in Australia, I invite you most sincerely to do a funny walk into church with John Cleese and myself. :)

Richard - no invitation for the funny walk yet! However, there’s hope for you I’m sure.

18

Richard 09.22.11 at 11:11 am

:( My walk is only slightly silly anyway. Given the budget restraint, it wouldn’t qualify for a development grant.

19

Graham 09.22.11 at 11:43 am

This is just really, really sad to watch- like watching a car crash.

I don’t know the guy personally but I have heard of him. Looks to me like it is time to take a sabbatical and realise that your ‘messiah complex’ (which most of us full time Christian leaders suffer from) is unchecked and out of control. The gift of communicating which Mr Driscoll has is a very dangerous gift- I think you can end up believing in your own publicity and your ego can go out of control.

What I am most puzzled about is that this is not a clip that someone has uploaded randomly but carefully produced. It has not gone out ad hoc but seemingly officially.

Sad, sad, sad. And that would be before I even think of those whose private stuff has been broadcasted publicly (albeit recast with Mark Driscoll as Saviour)….

20

Richard 09.22.11 at 12:13 pm

You’re right Graham. There’s plenty of anti-Driscoll stuff out there, but the most damning is that put out by his own church.

21

PamBG 09.22.11 at 1:26 pm

What I am most puzzled about is that this is not a clip that someone has uploaded randomly but carefully produced. It has not gone out ad hoc but seemingly officially.

Which says a heck of a lot about how and why he is dangerous.

22

Richard 09.22.11 at 1:29 pm

Absolutely. While there is a lot of anti-Driscoll propaganda out there, it’s the stuff that his church publishes itself which is most damning. And the worst of it is, they don’t seem to know.

23

Paul F. 09.23.11 at 12:11 am

“I’m not even sure that Driscoll has any superiors to which he is accountable.”

That pretty much nails it. He’s not in trouble. He’s weathered these things before, like his pornographic sermon on “Song of Solomon” from a few years back.

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