Katrina’s meaning

by Richard on August 31, 2005

I see the “Katrina is God’s judgement” comments have started to appear around the blogs.

*sigh*

{ 19 comments… read them below or add one }

1

DH 08.31.05 at 4:58 pm

Where Richard? If so, why do people feel they need to “judge” America all of the time. I know we have problems but at least we have less than 90% of the people not going to church. We help groups of people to obtain freedom and democracy, rather than the oppression from dictators. We also support Israel as stated in the bible the blessing for supporting Israel. (Not this in a pure sense but in a half way decent sense in that no other nation supports them in relation to the dozens against them).

2

Richard 08.31.05 at 5:42 pm

Funnily enough, the comments that I’ve seen have come from “your” (if I can call it that, DH ;)) not mine. Whatever the sins of the USA (and we might disagree about what they are!) I reckon God has a better aim than a random hurricane.

3

Randy McRoberts 08.31.05 at 6:11 pm

I’ve seen and heard comments that this is God’s judgment on a sinful city. I’ve done my best to squelch that.

I’ve also seen and heard comments that this is America’s rightful punishment for failing to ratify the Kyoto protocol. I don’t know who the punisher would be in that scenario; perhaps God, perhaps the goddess, perhaps a nameless force.

Both types of comment are equally ludicrous.

4

Ivan The Crank 08.31.05 at 8:20 pm

Maybe the problem is as simple as we human beings think we can restrain, retrain and defy nature so that we can build our cities and homes in areas that should only be visited by us, not inhabited. Barrier islands and river deltas were not intended for habitation but natural protection. I’m inclined to think this might be part of God’s natural design, and when we defy that design long enough and arrogantly enough, nature eventually compensates or demonstrates its ability to overcome our attempts at control. Just like the law of gravity says that if we jump off a tall cliff or building we will fall until we hit something, so the laws of coastal and river activity say that if we build in flood plains or on beaches that eventually the water will win. Jesus even had a parable about this. It’s something about a wise man bulding his house upon a rock and a foolish man building it upon the sand. God’s judgement: NO! Natural cause and effect: Yest!

Now, before you think I am heartless in my observations and assessment, please know that my heart breaks for every victim of this and every natural and human caused disaster. I will receive offerings for relief in my church, help assemble teams to work at recovery and pray daily for those victims. But, if we would learn from these experiences and, instead of rebuilding in the same locations we move far enough inland and off flood plains to avoid this massive devastation, then maybe we will have done the wise and compassionate thing.

5

Joel 08.31.05 at 8:26 pm

Well, if God wants to aim politically, then he needed to target either New Orleans proper alone (big Kerry country) or only the surrounding suburbs and rural areas (Bush country). If God wants to pronounce judgment, he must “stay on message” so to speak.

Or, we Christians could all just do the Biblical thing and see how God pronounces both judgment and hope with a clear message by re-reading the prophets, conversing with Christ and the Spirit, and considering and evaluating how we currently minister to the afflicted and oppressed and how we could be doing so. But then I would have to look at my own failings. What’s the sport in that?

6

Bene Diction 08.31.05 at 11:29 pm

DH:

Please stop with the anti americanism. Please just stop.
You have 3 of your fellow citizens in here saying otherwise and being clear where anger is coming from.

I’m really disappointed in you for what you left at my blog.
I’m worn out, and that’s partly because I’ve been assisting with what is needed behind the scenes.

Let people rage, let them blame God, the democrats, republicans or whomever they want.
If you think there is anti americanism - take your complaint to those you believe are.
You come to my blog, to Richard and blame us?

Hear the contrasts, and hear the compassion, hear the practical.
Todayyou have over 1/2 million people homeless, people to rescue, people to bury, people to heal, people to find each other.
You have people who need a meal, water, a roof, medicine, comfort.

Grieve, go, help and please stop accusing others that are standing with you in your loss.

7

Bene Diction 09.01.05 at 12:48 am

Doug, I’m not done.

China, Venezuala, The Vatican, Canada, France, Germany, the UK, Switzerland…

You read.

The Netherlands lost 2 thousand people in 1953. (16 million live below sea level) had some criticism.
I don’t doubt Dutch sea wall specialists are their way if the US needs or wants their help.

I’m with Ivan who is a minister…natural cause and effect.
The spiritualizing; I agree with Randy who is an engineer…ludicrious.
I agree with Joel, God isn’t quite staying on message then.

8

Rick O 09.04.05 at 12:47 am

Last year where I live in central Florida we were hit by two of the four tropical cycles that affected the state. We lost power and lots of stuff blew around and made a mess. I live fifty miles from the Gulf of Mexico, seventy from the Atlantic. Many who live near the water suffered much more severe damage, precisely because of where they live. Our homeowner’s insurance rates are higher this year, in great part in order to subsidize the rebulding of homes that in many cases should not have been in harm’s way to begin with.
I agree entirely with Ivan: far too many live in flood and storm prone areas, and along untenable beachfronts and siesmic zones. Alas, we pay the consequences from time to time, as calamities such as the recent tsunami illustrate all too tragically.
Those who attribute any of this to ’specific’ acts of God are in the same boat (no pun intended) with those who declare that God cannot exist, because if He did He would not allow such horrors to happen to innocents. What happens indeed, happens; what we do to ourselves, we do to ourselves.

9

Magnum 09.04.05 at 7:10 pm

Folks -lets face the reason for all of the disasters in the end times we will go thru these”seasons” let us not forget that this country was founded on Gods principles and laws and We have ignored and think that our way is better or that the Bible is out of date we have taken prayer out of school,decipline,homosexuality,everyone thinking of themselves,violence,We need to get back to GOD and to no one else -We as a Nation need to pray that GODs Judgement will ease and that he will forgive us

10

moi 09.06.05 at 10:22 pm

There were many dark things going on in New Orleans including Voodoo and Black Magic. Some of the perversions were blatant than other cities as well.Similar sins do go on in other cities, but they were more blatant and “advanced” in New Orleans.

We should feel for the suffering of the people and help them out, This is God’s call on us to have mercy to the suffering. However I think I sense a relief in the air, as if some evil oppression has been removed from this nation. My spirit feels more free now, and I do live father away from New Orleans. It is like some dark spiritual monster was located in New Orleans but putting out more and more tentacles spoking out across the nation, but now it is gone.

Our best defense against such things happening again is to seek the Lord, turn away from darkness, and to use some wisdom. Perhaps New Orleans should be rebuilt in a safer place. I do hope that the people who survived and are now in a humble position use this as an opporunity to look up. We do need to remember that if God is forced to choose between our physical well-being and our spiritual well-being, the spiritual well-being will take priority. Often people who might normally have hard hearts seek the Lord in times of trouble and find salvation, when they otherwise might now have.

Seeking the Lord is the root of all goodness from deep within the heart, but seeking dark powers is the root of all evil especially when it is done deliberately. It will take you down a path that is more difficult to break, not because of God’s lack of power or love, but because of its addictive nature.
Think about the Revenge of the Sith movie if you have seen it by now. That could be any one of us if we follow darkness. Darth Vader was redeemed in the end, but only after years of slaverly to the Dark Side and causing much suffering. When he was a little boy he wanted to free the slaves, but he became the ultimate slave himself for years of his life.

I do feel this was a specifici judgement against New Orleans with a warning to everyone else and temporary consquences for the rest of the nation.

Like the Republic, this nation can withstand attacks from outside, but we risk corruption from the inside. Palpatine, who I daresay is meant to represent the devil, took control only as people in the Republic gave in to corruption.

The prequels very much seem to symbolize much of what is going on in real life right now. The interesting part is many of the details were worked out before the movies were released.

11

Ron 09.07.05 at 1:52 am

Luke 13: 1 ¶ Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
3 “I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
4 “Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
5 “I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
(NAS95)

12

chevy 09.07.05 at 2:26 pm

The meaning of the name Katrina is Pure or Purifying.
New Orleans has been a fagoot city/sodom filled with decadence and homos. Judgement has been made on her wicked ways. New Orleans will pay a high price

13

moi 09.08.05 at 3:22 am

I do take that passage from Luke seriously. The Lord was pointing that not all disaster is a judgement for sin and not all who suffer are worse than others. Indeed many innocent people are suffering or have died in New Orleans. That does not change the fact that SOME disasters ARE judgements from God. More cleansing than punishment, however if we refuse God’s grace by our free will then all that is left to us is to face His Justice without the Cross to intervene on our behalf. That is the most dangerous place to be. The prospect should terrify people far more than it does. Far more than the scarriest horror movie. Far more than physical death in a disaster.

Sodom and Gommorah WAS an example of a specific disaster as a judgement for sin. So was when God allowed Israel’s enemies to defeat them, usually due to idolatry and related practices that God found awful.

God’s grace is real. It is powerful. It outweighs sin. But the key is that we need to ACCEPT God’s grace. It is at the Cross that sins are forgiven.

When people go down a path deeper and deeper and darker and darker I consider an event such as a disaster an actual act of mercy, as it prevents people from getting worse and sinking deeper in to the depths. It is interesting that the people now taking potshots at rescue workers have no usual criminal motive other than pure malicousness. This is indeed shows how far some hearts have fallen into darkness. I would daresay this is the same mentality that the terrorists have. The terrorists claim to hate us because they would like to see our society cleaned up. However, they are hypocrites. Their tactics are wrong, and their idea of what our society should be is also wrong. The terrorists try to play a role of jugdement that DOES rightly belong to God when GOD decides that the situation DOES rise to the level of more extreme judgement, however. The mentality of the terrorists is like satan appearing as an angel of light promising greater righteousness, but then terribly twisting it. The terrorists remind me of the Pharisees of old with bombs strapped to themselves. Satan would like to usurp God’s role so he tries to lead the terrorists to do so.

I do believe there are right places for military and police force, including against terrorism, but I do not ever see terrorism to be a righteous tactic.

Indeed the Jedi and Sith are much alike in many ways. But the motives and the heart are critically and vastly different. The few differences are so key that it makes the difference between being in the Light and being in Darkness, the difference between salvation and condemnation.

14

renegade 09.10.05 at 9:08 pm

This talk of God destroying the “Soddom & Gomorrah” of the South is ludicrous. The most famous area of New Orleans is the French Quarter, which is still intact, so it has not been destroyed. If God was trying to leave a message, then why didn’t he destroy the CBD…those with the money to rebuild? Instead, the homes of the poor were destroyed…those who didn’t build New Orleans in the first place. New Orleans will return!!

15

moi 09.13.05 at 3:17 am

The French Quarter was not destroyed but people are unable to continue activities there, or if they do on a very very scaled down manner. The purpose of God is to wake people up and give them time and a chance to repent, not to destroy them. Final destruction comes only ater people have rejected all their chances to repent. God is to merciful to do otherwise. I heard many people are going to put down roots in new cities instead of returning. Many of the survivors seem to be finding new faith in God. When they do rebuild they will not be as decadent. If some return to decadance they will be far fewer in number than before.

16

moi 09.15.05 at 7:18 pm

I need to comment about this theory of “God needing to stay on message.”
Who are we to judge HOW God is to judge or to do HIS works. Does God stand before us when we hold the gavel, or does God hold the gavel and we stand before him? God sometimes judges by putting the squeeze on people. He can make it more uncomfortable to sin without making it impossible. If people choose to squirm out of God’s attempts to work on this, they have the freedom to do so and to take the consequences later.
So what if the French Quarter survived? The same decadence there before isn’t going on now. The people are more likely to look to the Lord now and live better lives.

As for the politics God is more interested in doing what is right than politics. Although some of my politcal beliefs line up better with consertvatives, I feel we are better off working with people who have values. The way I see it, the free market is superior to communism. I believe the basic economic framework should be the free market with help for those who are struggling or fall through the cracks, but not an entitlement to those who choose to be lazy. I believe in Constitutional laws, and in not making laws just because someone doesn’t like what you say. That is a path to tyranny and dictatorship. The way I see it, conservatives with no values, the “neo-cons” think straight on some issues, but they have no heart, SOME liberals have a heart, but aren’t thinking clearly, (SOME liberals use the liberal agenda to gain power over people with their promises and benefits), and conservatives with values think straight and have a heart for people.

We even need to be careful in assuming God doesn’t want us to rebuild New Orleans on the same site, even for safety reasons. If we are wise we can take better steps for future protection. If the future population of New Orleans does God’s will better the city will prosper. If they flaunt sin and dark spirituality in God’s face again He is still capable of dealing with the situation.

17

pops 09.17.05 at 2:33 am

I do believe God is sick and tired of wicked ways of his people.. A pastor told me he and his church prayed and fasted for God to clean up New Orleans, I really feel bad alot of innocent peole died.. I pray this will get the intentions of our people to get closer to God. The true meaning of Katrina is purifing, cleansing and this is exactly what was done, we as the people dont understand this storm, but who are we to question God?

18

David J Field 10.20.05 at 12:36 pm

NEW ORLEANS

Concerning the terrible devastation recently brought upon New Orleans, by Hurricane Katrina and later Rita; and having regard to certain judgmental speculation, which has emanated from Christian organisations in North America, as to the reason for this devastation and loss of life, the subsequent media attention, and a particularly blasphemous observation, by a Christian organisation in England. I feel it is important to point out that such speculation, is neither edifying, nor consistent with Holy Scripture, and is indeed specifically spoken against, by the Lord.
Reference therefore should be made in the first instance, to the Scriptural authority and guidance concerning this, as set out in Luke.13:1-5. Further consideration may then be given, to the following comments on Luke.13:2, by three respected commentators.

JEAN CALVIN. (1509 - 1564).
2. To correct the false and cruel judgment which we are accustomed to pass on wretched sufferers, and, at the same time, to shake off the indulgence which every man cherishes towards himself, He shows, first, that those who are treated with severity are not the most wicked of all men; because God administers his judgments in such a manner, that some are instantly seized and punished, and others are permitted to remain long in the enjoyment of ease and luxury. Secondly, He declares that all the calamities which happen in the world are so many demonstrations of the wrath of God; and hence we learn what an awful destruction awaits us, if we do not avert it.

GIOVANNI DIODATI. (1576 - 1649).
2. suppose ye – ‘these events should not cause you to enter into any manner of rash judgments’ (John 9:2).

JOHN GILL. (1697 - 1771).
2. suppose ye that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things? – such a supposition they seem to have made, by their speaking to Christ concerning this matter; and concluded from their violent and untimely deaths, that they had been notorious and uncommon sinners, and guilty of the most enormous crimes, which had brought upon them the just judgments of God. Whereas this is not a rule of judging, oftentimes the best of men suffer exceedingly in this life. God’s judgments are a great deep, and not to be fathomed by us, nor is it to be easily known, when any thing befalls persons in a way of judgment. There is nothing comes by chance, but every thing by the wise disposal of divine providence, to answer some end or another; nor are persons that are punished, either immediately by the hand of God, or by the civil magistrate, to be insulted, but rather to be pitied. Besides, love and hatred, the characters and states of men, are not to be known by these effects in providence.

Many people may have also felt some unease, with regard to the giving of aid, to such an infamously wicked city as New Orleans. Nevertheless, the latter part of John Gill’s commentary above, sets out quite rightly, how we should act in circumstances such as these.

David J Field. 19.10.2005

19

Becca 08.29.06 at 2:48 pm

Moi;

As you said, who are we to question “god”? In the same respects, how could you, a person, a mortal, a human, possibly claim to know what or how “god” does what he/she does?!!?!?!? Are you filled with hubris (I will lend you the definition; foolish, ironic pride). I refuse to believe that you can assume the knowledge of “god”, a supremely intelligent being, a power that is both fearful but LOVES UNCONDITIONALLY. If “god” is so intent to smite an entire COAST for being sinful, why doesn’t he blow a hurricane through the White House? If you honestly believe that God tore through a city filled with people because we were practicing voodoo and such, then I’ve got a freaking bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. It is a year later, and New Orleans, my home of my whole life, still isn’t and will not be for a long time, anything like it was.

In short, who in all of “god’s” creation, are you to judge? Who are you to peg homosexuals, people who practice “voodoo” and others who take desperate measures, who are you to put them/us BENEATH YOU? We are no lesser. WE SHALL OVERCOME THIS. We will survive, no matter how you wish otherwise.

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