Communists and Marxist-types in general have this really strong “Either you’re with us or against us†vibe. If you don’t see the worth of the Revolution, you’re out. Damned. First against the wall. It gets worse, though. There’s in-fighting. Terms like “Bolshevik†and “Menshevikâ€1 get chucked around like swear words, and to be honest, you get the real impression that — despite occasional cries for solidarity and unity — if there’s going to be a Revolution, it’s only going to be us and not them.
Compare with your conservative Christians (like your ultra-conservative UCCF types, or your Metropolitan Tabernacle types): they don’t just think that if you’re not a Christian, you’re damned forever. They think that if you’re the wrong kind of Christian, you’re damned forever. Catholics? Liberal Protestants? Orthodox? Not actually Christian, then — damned like the rest of the heathens.
Another nail hit squarely on the head.
{ 18 comments… read them below or add one }
Kim 08.29.07 at 3:23 pm
More like a nail hit squarely in the hand/wrist (depending on your archaeology of crucifixion).
dh 08.30.07 at 9:48 pm
I don’t see any connection to Marxism with regard to conservative Christians. I see more of a revolution attempt on those to change the foundations of the Christian Faith to something outside of the Christian Faith as opposed to the other way around. How should one respond to someone who attempts to change something to outside of Scripture?
I personally don’t know too many Conservative Christians who say Catholics, Orthodox and liberal Christians are all going to hell. I know many Catholics, Orthodox and liberal Christians who have accepted Christ as their personal Savior. I will say however, that to believe there is any other way of Salvation other than by our Faith in Christ and accepting the free gift made available to all by Christ’s death and rersurrection and the belief that Jesus was at all times God (the triune God) is clearly anti-Christian.
However, I know many Catholics, liberal Christians, Orthodox who believe in a “works based Salvation” and when asked have not accepted Christ as their Savior even though they do so much for God. I think that is somewhat anti-Christian. Again, not all Catholics, liberal Christians, Orthodox are going to be damned because many have had a clear Salvation experience of accepting and Believing in the true nature of God and have invited Jesus into their heart. It’s the ones who don’t believe that this is the only way when Scripture says otherwise or don’t believe in the true nature of God where concerns arise on certain “false doctrines” that the Apostle Paul clearly addresses in the Epsitles.
“Without Faith it is impossible to please God.” (Epistles), “If you deny Me I will deny you before My Father in heaven.” (Jesus) (both passages from God since both are from God’s Word)
dh 08.30.07 at 9:50 pm
The attempted revolution comes from liberal Christians who don’t go along with the above reply I stated trying to change Scripture to “tickle their ears” with no personal responsibility for the passages that state what the true nature of God/Christ/HS is, Salvation vs. the rejection of Salvation, works based Salvation vs. accepting Christ as ones Savior for Salvation, etc.
Wood 08.30.07 at 10:25 pm
“I don’t see any connection to Marxism with regard to conservative Christians.”
If you’d been paying any attention at all, you’d have registered that I’d said that in terms of what they believe, they have little or nothing in common; but that in terms of the way they behave, they’re virtually inseperable.
Wood 08.31.07 at 8:48 am
OK, I hate doing this, since only a complete loser double-posts on a blog, but I need to tackle this point:
“I personally don’t know too many Conservative Christians who say Catholics, Orthodox and liberal Christians are all going to hell. I know many Catholics, Orthodox and liberal Christians who have accepted Christ as their personal Savior.”
You see, this is a disingenuous statement, and I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard it over the years. It’s disingenuous because what you’re actually saying is this: you think you know many Catholics, Orthodox and liberals who are actually really conservatives, only they don’t know it yet.
dh 08.31.07 at 3:48 pm
Wood, I believe it is a gross overgeneralization to say that the way they believe is inseperable.
Also, how is it disingenuous when I know many people who are Catholics, Orthodoc & liberal Christians who have “accepted Christ as ones Savior”. Accepting Christ as Savior is not a “conservative” thing. That again is another gross overgeneralization as well.
I only say this because you called me a loser: but only a complete loser uses gross overgenerlaizations to attack others in the Body of Christ and only complete losers would associate Marxism with conservative Christianity.
Wood 08.31.07 at 4:49 pm
“I believe it is a gross overgeneralization to say that the way they believe is inseperable.”
Didn’t say that.
dh 08.31.07 at 5:13 pm
I know you didn’t say that. I believe it is also a gross overneralization on beahving as well. I see no connection to the bahavior of Conservative Christians and Marxism. To take the minority and project to the majority really is uncalled for and offensive and really not truthful at all. I think any person would take that as being offensive. It seems to me you are behaving with a double standard. You were so quick to point out your offense with me with what I said and when I do the same you consider it no big deal. “pot calling the kettle black”. Again only a complete loser would associate Marxism with conservative Christianity with regard to behavior or belief.
behave or believe my reply works and is consistent either way.
Wood 08.31.07 at 5:44 pm
“To take the minority and project to the majority really is uncalled for and offensive and really not truthful at all.”
Were I talking about the minority, you might have had a point.
Richard 08.31.07 at 5:50 pm
What you have to understand DH is that Wood is speaking from his personal experience. Experience which I share.
dh 08.31.07 at 8:09 pm
Well Wood, you WERE talking about the minority because in fact it IS the minority that have that view you so much believe is like Marxist. So for you to project the minority view onto the majority is where I take offense. Also, to begin to make any level of associations of Conserviative Evangelical with Marxism to me is very offensive and what the Apostle Paul talks about with “.. the eye saying to the ear I have no need of you.” with regard to the Body of Christ.
Richard, I’m totally surprised that you would support or agree with the comparison of Conservative Evangelical with Marxism. Do you realize how offensive that is?
I understand you have a personal experience but maybe you two need to look at the bigger picture and realize how there is NO comparisons to Marzism among a majority of Conservative Evangelicals. I know many times I have a “personal experience” but before I discuss that “personal experience” and associate that with a particular group I look at and analyze the particular group as a whole first. Many times when I do this I ‘m able to get an accurate picture unbiased of the particular group and realize the differences within that group. What I see from you and Wood is a blanket projection onto the majority from expereinces from the minority within the group.
My advise to you and Wood is too look at the Conservative Evangelicals beyond just the little experience you have had from them. You may think you have a lot of experience with them but Conservative Evangelicals are a big group and include in fact many Orthodox, Catholic and various other protestant denominations. Also, not all conservative Evangelicals are truly Christian just like not all liberal Evangelicals are Christians.
Bene D 08.31.07 at 10:22 pm
DH:
And you’ve lived in the UK how long?
Cripes, this is precisely why I didn’t post while Richard was gone.
Get over yourself.
How dare you speak to Wood that way!
Like you know his life, his experiences or his blog.
Seriously DH, get over yourself. Most of us don’t live in Kanas Toto.
You honestly give fresh meaning to the term the ugly American and I’d like to tell you where to go using a very American term starting with f.
It would be completely lost on you as is everything else.
Olive Morgan 08.31.07 at 10:30 pm
I wish I hadn’t read these 12 comments! It hurt to read the exchanges.
Bene D 08.31.07 at 10:50 pm
Yeah, Olive it does hurt.
Apart from completely iqnoring Wood’s value, what else is completely lost on DH is the root of the f word in British Common law.
I couldn’t care less what his opinion is, connexions has a good number of conservatives and US conservatives coming by to make excellent points.
I get Methodist tradition, even DH is permitted full expression.
So the rest of us that can’t take his crap have to shut up all in the name of Christian charity or pretend he makes sense.
Given what Wood has written about before regarding his extensive knowledge and experience, this is insane.
I’m bloody sick of you trashing others here DH and I can’t take any more of you.
Since you won’t leave the rest of us have to.
dh 09.01.07 at 5:48 am
Who did the trashing? Wood made a very very harsh comparison of Conservative Evangelical to Marxism. How should a person of that pursuasion respond? How can you not see how anyone would take offense to that?
Wood strarted this not me. I would have possibly appreciated post. I really just couldn’t get over how insulting comparing at any way Conservative Evangelicalism to Marxism. What is truly insane is the comparison in the first place.
Bene D 09.01.07 at 7:55 am
DH. Every time you are called on your behavior you blame someone else.
Stop blaming other people for your sickness, stop whining and passing the buck and just shut the f**k up.
Your behavior is not everyone elses fault.
You don’t listen, you show little ability to respect others unless it benefits you; you can’t follow a reasonable line of thought, empathy eludes you, you are tediously obsessive, circular and you haven’t a clue who you harm or insult.
Richard 09.01.07 at 9:41 am
Time we cooled it, I think. Take a deep breath everyone.
There really isn’t anything insulting about being compared to a Marxist, DH. At least, not on this side of the Pond. Marxism and socialism are not the cuss words that our US cousins take them to be.
But look again at what Wood says. He isn’t saying that evangelicalism and marxism are the same thing. That would be absurd. What he is doing is noting similarities between the way these two apparently very different groups operate namely (for example) a tendency to split over the slightest thing and to regard ones own faction as being the sole guardian of The Truth. And he’s right, isn’t he?
But it might be best to call time on this one.
dh 09.04.07 at 2:48 pm
Richard, I appreciate your explaination. I will say that I don’t see the similarities that you so believe are connected. However, I do appreciate your candor, care in explaination and lack of harshness in your responses. I appreciate that you at least can understand how I could be offended and made an exaplaination that while doesn’t totally satisfy my concerns with a comparison that Wood made at least I can let “bygone be bygones”.
I don’t agree that there are any similarities between the two in any way but I still can “call time on this one”.