Give me that old time religion

by Richard on April 30, 2008

I’ve mentioned this preacher before and because of that made the mistake of clicking the ‘play’ button when I saw the video above on Paul Martin’s site. So I thought I’d share the opportunity to make the same mistake with you.

He’s very pleased with his rhetoric, this preacher. And he doesn’t like homosexuals. Oh no.

{ 22 comments… read them below or add one }

1

PamBG 04.30.08 at 11:59 pm

‘They used to sing songs of praise. But now they sing ‘We hate gays’.

They used to preach ‘To God you are special’, now they preach ‘God hates the homosexual.

They used to say the Gospel was Good News, now they say ‘We don’t want to hear other views.’

More meaningless, bull-pucky rhetoric. A perfect example of the sort of empty drivel that passes for reasoning.

2

Richard 05.01.08 at 12:22 am

Nicely put!

3

Kim 05.01.08 at 10:00 am

Can’t you just see the jerk in his study putting together the rhymes? And he sure knows a lot about the popular culture he so despises as satanic, doesn’t he? On the whole, I’d rather be waterboarded than have to listen to that verbal tsunami again.

4

Richard 05.01.08 at 11:58 am

That could be arranged… ;)

5

Paul Martin 05.01.08 at 1:14 pm

Torture Kim?

6

DH 05.01.08 at 5:14 pm

When are we going to stop using the ultra-extreme minority views as the definition and/or of attitude of those who believe homosexuality is a sin and/or against homosexual marriage? Saying something is a sin and hating people are two totally different things. Why do people who support homosexuality and those that are ultra-extreme minority who are against homosexuality the same in lumping together sin and hate? To say saying something is a sin and hating people are two different things. I have a problem with the site and those who use this in reference to people who are against homosexulaity and homosexual marriage. I get tired of being defined by the ultra-extremist within my “camp” as opposed to looking at this rationally like I do with regard to Scripture.

7

James 05.01.08 at 5:15 pm

That was brilliant! After about one minute of pure ‘the used to know’ rhymes I thought it was some sort of joke.

My least favorite thing in this kind of teaching (it can be found in the Daily Mail also, and numerous old people) is this belief that things are suddenly a lot worse than they used to be, and this looking back to a ‘golden age’. It’s just stupid.

8

DH 05.01.08 at 5:28 pm

James, things ARE worse than they used to be. In the past people would do “bad things” and it was more in secret. Now people do those same things and they don’t care that they did “bad things” or worse they believe that these “bad things” are actually “good”. While it is true “bad things” were done back then as now, the attitude of those who do “bad things” is actually worse. For me what is stupid is people not caring that “bad things” are done and also confusing things that are actually “bad” as being good.

I personally don’t want to see sin promoted or made public like it is today. In the past these “public things” were not as previlent or at least “looked down upon”. To me there is a growing attitude, not quite there, of becoming more like the “days of Noah”. To say this is stupid is really an “overlook” on the part of those who happen to disagree.

9

James 05.01.08 at 6:04 pm

dh,

I couldn’t disagree with you more. Read Chaucer and the kind of things he writes about. We may have this ‘celebrity culture’ that glorifies things that are bad but at the end of the day its nothing in comparrison to the attrocity that was slavery. We don’t have colonialism, racism as well that used to be worse. All these things are ‘bad’ yet people used to think they were good.

I don’t like the ‘Hate the Sin love the Sinner’ belief because if we get people like homosexuals who identify themselves with what they do heavily then you can either start hating the sinner or start loving the sin.

10

Beth 05.01.08 at 6:31 pm

James, I’m curious - why do you single out Chaucer?

DH - you may be right that certain types of behaviour are now more open than they used to be. Things that many Christians would call “sin”, such as dishonouring one’s parents, blasphemy, homosexuality and so on, are all relatively mainstream behaviours. I think this is no bad thing. For better or worse, people can exercise free will and think for themselves about what’s moral and acceptable, rather than have society do it for them. As Christians, we shouldn’t be pleased if someone does good because they have no choice. We should be pleased if, having seen what’s out there, they choose to act in a way which is consonant with Christianity.

11

DH 05.01.08 at 7:05 pm

Well, I believe people could have excercized free-will then it is just that sin wasn’t promoted and people didn’t have an attitude of “not caring if they sinned” or at least the attitdue wasn’t made public. For me, the public display of sin promotes more sin. I do like your last sentence but what I’m referring to is the promotion of sin and publically displaying sin or doing sin in public is contained within that.

James, you continue to define people who “love the sin and hate the sinner” by the extreme minority within that camp. I personally believe it does NOT lead to that stuff. At the same time we must acknowledge that the extreme minority is wrong. What you adhere to on this issue is classic “throw the baby out with the bathwater”.

Beth, you talk people needing to “think for themselves” but doesn’t God want us to think under the Lordship of Christ and His Word? That is what I’m referring to. People don’t want to be told what to do even if it is God telling them. I have said before that if Jesus was around at the time of the women caught in adultry and Jesus said “go and sin no more”, the post-modern generation would be all upset saying “how dare he accuse the women of sinning, how dare he judge people”. You get my drift with regard to the problem of current society? When something is stated clearly in God’s Word and people like myself state it in a kind loving way people accuse us of “judging, condemning, etc.” as opposed to reading it and seeing what Scripture clearly states which it is sin. I will say that I appreciate your attidue and candor on this thread and I guess I agree to a point that today might be just as bad as in the past. However, the concept of personal responsibility has changed for the worse and an attitude of “not caring” and/or “condoning bad things” are areas where today is worse than before. At the same time, yeah, slavery was worse back then, etc. but people had personal responsibility and personal sins were not condoned. Thanks for the balance. Hopefully I balanced you out as well. :)

12

PamBG 05.01.08 at 11:05 pm

I don’t see the above clip as a paradigm for ‘people who think homosexuality is a sin’.

I see it as a paradigm for what passes for rational argument in the media; it’s a fantastic example of the drivel we have to put up with. There is no reasoning in it whatsoever; just a complete appeal to the emotions of ‘the world is going to hell in a handbasket’.

I find it funny that people who say they believe in human sinful nature think that people in the past were better than people in the present, for some reason.

The example I always use is the fragment of a Roman letter from a wife to her husband: ‘Do you want to know what whores your daughters are? Last week they ran into the street, took off their clothes and started shouting “We want men!”‘

Things were only better in the past because we we weren’t there. People tend to idealise the era of their parents’ childhood. I’m in agreement with James on this one.

13

Kim 05.02.08 at 8:24 am

“Our ignorance of history makes us libel our own times. People have always been like this.”
- Voltaire

“Antiquity is full of eulogies of another more remote antiquity.”
- Flaubert

14

Beth 05.02.08 at 11:42 am

“Beth, you talk people needing to “think for themselves” but doesn’t God want us to think under the Lordship of Christ and His Word?”

I hope not. I hope that God wants me to think for myself and come to my own decision about what’s moral and right. I hope that God would rather that I went the wrong way under my own steam than go the right way because I’ve been brainwashed into doing so.

15

dh 05.02.08 at 8:09 pm

The world IS going to hell in a handbasket. For you to deny the fact that there is a greater promotion of sin in the public square and to promote the idea that there are NOT people doing sin in such a way that they either believe is not sin or don’t care that what they are doing is sin that is made public is total ignorance on your part in your observation of society. That type of attitude is what promotes each generation to become worse than the generation before.

True they comitted the same sins but the fact remains the sheer number and the public display of the sin with these terrible attitude in culture is what is dramtically different and terrible in society today.

Placing ones life under the Lordship of Christ is not brainwashing. If one places their life under the Lordship of Christ they wont want to do things that go against Christ. If you truly love God you wont want to do these things let alone do them in public. I find your last reply very sad. This type of attitude is what makes each generation worse. Jesus even predicted that it would get even worse on the last day by refering to the last generation as the “Days of Noah”. Current society is projecting at least a higher amount of this attitude which I and God find very repulsive.

16

Beth 05.02.08 at 11:22 pm

“Current society is projecting at least a higher amount of this attitude which I and God find very repulsive.”

You claim to speak for God? You cannot possibly claim to tell others what God finds repulsive.

DH, I wonder how much you really know about various historical periods and their conditions? There have been times and places in history where public morals about sex and other things were far less stringent than they are now.

I affirm my belief in the sinlessness of homosexual relationships, just as I have told friends who are having adulterous relationships that I don’t like what they’re doing. Honestly, if God finds my behaviour repulsive, he can go and stuff himself.

17

DH 05.03.08 at 4:45 pm

Well when God’s Word states what is sin and those very things are being promoted then you can understand that it isn’t me but God. What do you have to say about Romans 1, 1 Cor 6, or the passage in Leviticus? While God may find sin repulsive it doesn’t change the fact that God loves you and all people. It is just that He desires a better way for us that is in our better interest than we even know or understand.

Again, it isn’t me saying these things but what God’s Word says about these subjects. I love you in the Lord and God loves you Beth but He desires what is best for us. God knows I screw up, mess up and sin. I’m not focusing on one sin but ALL sins. I’m sorry that you feel the need to tell God to go stuff Himself. It really makes me sad to hear that from you.

I do understand in the past that is why we should go back to the views of the Romans, Greeks and the like where sexual perversion was even more prevelent than now. What I’m referring to is in the past 50-100 years with regard to all views of sin. The fact remains sin is being promoted more now and I just pray that it will stop or at least diminish over time.

18

Son of the Prophet 05.03.08 at 6:56 pm

DH,

After reading your comments on this post and the one about efficiency with regard to the church promoting sin I have to say I find your apparent blanket approach quite worrying.

If I may focus for just a second on two of the things you said I think I may be able to explain what I mean. You seem to be saying in this and your other post that, for example, adultery and abortion are sin and therefore wrong. Now on principle I of course must agree with you. However, surely we need to recognise that there are situations that will arise that will need careful consideration and to which we cannot simply apply such a blanket approach.

Lets for instance take the case of an asylum seeker to our country (a commodity we have plenty of in my area of England). Now let’s say that this young lady from Zimbabwe had fled her country after watching her husband be beat to death by militia soldiers and then raped by the the very guards that killed her loved one.

This act of rape then left the young lady pregnant and after fleeing to England wishes to get an abortion. Is this wrong? Why? That child, if born, will remind her of the loved one she has lost, the torturous experience she went through and, in being in a country where she has no one and very little money will mean she will have to bring the child up in less than ideal circumstances which could even result in her being sent back to her country of origin to face not only her death but the death of her child at the hands of those who got her pregnant in the first place!

In the case of adultery how do you judge a woman who has been beaten buy her husband, left him for her own safety and, although she is still legally married and has made vows in the eyes of the Lord wishes to start a relationship wiht a new man. Is this wrong? Why? Surely God would want that woman to move on and be happy.

It seems to me that the blanket “thou shalt not…..” approach you seem to be advocating is one of the reasons why the church faces a decline. The last thing young people want to do is to come to church only to be told everything they are doing is wrong in the eyes of the Lord and they must repent or they are not welcome. I agree that we can show them by the way we act but being openly aggressive and judgemental is not helpful

I think as Christians today we have a responsibility to realise we are in a changing culture and that we need to meet people on their level in their lives. Jesus did this. I’m sure you would frown upon me befriending a prostitute or someone with AIDS that was contracted through a homosexual experience (an analogy I use for leprosy and am well aware is not an entirely accurate one). Yet I think if Jesus was to perform his ministry today these are exactly the people he would be going out to meet and doing it in Love, not in judgement.

I hope I have misjudged you DH and that you do have room for manoeuvre within your Christian moral guidelines. If not I feel very sorry for anyone who asks you for advice in a position of “sin”. That one harsh word you may speak could be the difference between the Lord being able to work through that situation and bring another sheep back to the fold or another lamb being lost to the slaughter.

SOP

19

Beth 05.04.08 at 10:45 pm

DH, I don’t feel the need to tell God to go stuff himself. I feel the need to tell the God that you have constructed to go stuff himself. He’s not someone I recognise.

SoP, I’ve tried these kinds of arguments before. They don’t tend to work. Good luck to you, though!

20

DH 05.05.08 at 5:40 pm

Beth, this isn’t the God that I or anyone else “constructed”. Have you read Romans 1, 1 Cor 6 and other passages God’s Word says with regard toparticular sins? Have you read passages regarding fornication being a sin, adultry and the like? As you can see I’m not “picking and choosing”. I’m just looking at what Scripture admonishes us to do, act and say and follow that in true humble obedience.

SOP, with regard to I understand these issues are difficult. However, with regard to abortion I know many women who decided life and are thankful that they chose that as their decision. I feel that it is reasonable to admonish people to do the same so as not create “sin in the midst of sin”. With regard to the other issue, sexual imorality and physical abuse are legitimate reasons for divorce and remarriage. Scripture says that so I agree with you on that one. With regard to you calling what I said as being “judgement”: it is clear from this type of reply that you would be in with the people who would rebuke Jesus for telling the women she sinned when He says to her “go and sin no more”. It seems when people follow Jesus’s lead in helping people for Salvation and greater Sanctification that this culture “rubukes” people for pointing out what Scripture, God’s Word, says. Remember Beth and SOP, I say these things out of love and not judgement. God desires “as many as receive to them He gave them power to be the sons of God” in conjunction with “desiring all (as many as receive by Faith in Christ alone) to come to repentence”.

I think the problem in today’s culture, as referred by these reply’s I’m reading, is that people don’t want to listen what God says we should do, act or say from God’s Word. God’s Word helps us to be more like Him and it includes “dying to ourselves” and “giving our lives to Christ”. That includes keeping our “desires in check” and under the Lordship of Christ.

21

Beth 05.05.08 at 9:36 pm

We all construct God. We’re human, and therefore incapable of ever understanding him fully. What we know is an approximation, something which is necessarily filtered through our own knowledge and ways of thinking.

22

DH 05.05.08 at 10:12 pm

Beth, you shouldn’t speak for myself. Maybe you need to reread those passages I referenced. When one reads it one truly has to totally change the text from what was originally said to come up with your predispositions. I understand we can’t understand Him fully but that doesn’t mean that when we read Scripture in Romans 1 and 1 Cor 6 that it isn’t clear when in fact it is. It is stated in such clear terms that it becomes a self-fullfilled prophesy to believe that these things are okay.

Please reread my previous post. It shows how strange today’s society is in not wanting anyone including God to tell them what to do.

Here is a reiteration: “Beth, this isn’t the God that I or anyone else “constructed”. Have you read Romans 1, 1 Cor 6 and other passages God’s Word says with regard toparticular sins? Have you read passages regarding fornication being a sin, adultry and the like? As you can see I’m not “picking and choosing”. I’m just looking at what Scripture admonishes us to do, act and say and follow that in true humble obedience.”

and

“I think the problem in today’s culture, as referred by these reply’s I’m reading, is that people don’t want to listen what God says we should do, act or say from God’s Word. God’s Word helps us to be more like Him and it includes “dying to ourselves” and “giving our lives to Christ”. That includes keeping our “desires in check” and under the Lordship of Christ.”

Scripture also says that God’ Word is not up to “private interpretation”. Also, when one reads the rebuke to the churches for “false doctrine” and the problems those churches had one can see the similar problems and the lack of accountibility in society or desrie for accountibility with regard to solving these clear problems in society. It becomes very clear that with certain segments of society that one must help people away from rebellion first to even begin to share the Gospel in the first place. Others one can share in a soft-voice. It all depends on the attitude of the hearers.

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