Todd Bentley, Florida & Dudley

by Richard on June 25, 2008

Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion turns our attention back to Todd Bentley and the Florida ‘revival’, revealing that Todd has resolved the vexed issue of the authorship of the Epistle to the Hebrews. We now know that it was, despite what many scholars think, authored by St Paul. How do we now this? Because St Paul says so!

I discovered while conversing with Paul that it wasn’t only Jesus Christ who taught him in heaven. I say this because Paul told me: “Abraham taught me, in heaven, and that’s how and why I wrote the book of Hebrews. What I heard was from the lips of Abraham himself.”

Thus saith the Lord Todd at any rate. So now you know.

Richard Batholomew also comments on the spin-off “Dudley Outpouring”. In days gone by I spent a fair bit of time in Dudley (my friend’s grandmother lived there, and we spent happy summers with the lads from Vicar Street Bible Class - sadly now closed) and if you’d asked me before I’d have said that the folk of Dudley were too grounded to fall for this kind of nonsense. Looking at the videos on YouTube suggests I’d have been right: they certainly aren’t packing them in there as they are in Lakeland, despite the claims being made.

One thing I noticed on the videos is that the evangelist in Dudley does that same funny head-shaking thing that Todd Bentley does. I’ve seen Todd Bentley’s associates do it too, when they’ve been standing in for him in Lakeland. Is this a sign of ‘the annointing’? It’s been a while since I’ve regularly attended charismatic meetings, but I don’t remember head shaking ever being a feature. A holy twitch or tic seems like a strange sort of manifestation to me.

{ 18 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Kim 06.25.08 at 10:28 am

They shake their heads because they like the rattling sound of loose screws.

2

Bene D 06.25.08 at 1:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwlRisYyGAI

I’d say this isn’t safe for work, but you guys work at church.
It isn’t save for a normal workplace or if kids are around.

It will cut you to your core, and I’m left thinking you, Kim and other ministers are going to be dealing with damaged people who find their way out for the rest of your ministries.

I see another Canuck - Bobby Sullivan - Fresh Fire employee - a Todd clone - has been busy in Belfast.

3

Beth 06.25.08 at 1:26 pm

Bene - thanks for posting that. It’s incredibly disturbing. Is that guy Todd Bentley or someone else?

4

Richard 06.25.08 at 1:37 pm

I found that disturbing too.

The guy in the vid isn’t Todd Bentley, but he’s operating in the same sort of way.

5

ee 06.25.08 at 1:54 pm

Bentley’s not the first to make that claim - a guy called Kenneth Hagin, one of the founders of the Word Faith movement with Oral Roberts, said that he had a dream where he asked God who wrote Hebrews, and God told him Paul. Long before Bentley.

Nothing, of course, to do with the fact that the King James version so beloved of many Penties says that Paul wrote it.

6

Richard 06.25.08 at 2:09 pm

It must be true, then…

7

Bene D 06.25.08 at 2:35 pm

The Bentley crowd and God TV have hired a New York PR firm and set up ATM’s at Lakeland.

God TV isn’t showing the offerings, some are going on for 30 minutes or more, they were in considerable financial trouble the first of the year, so the Lakeland meetings and cross-media useage makes complete sense.

That video isn’t Bentley, that’s from the same crowd though, I was just watching the Fresh Fire Belfast stuff and decided to toss that up.

Lakeland goes in a straight back back to Rodney-Howard Browne’s friendship with the Straders and the Strangs who own a fair sized piece of the religious media pie.

When someone crashes from that (as they did at Toronto, Brownsville, Holy Trinity Brampton, Pensecola) who picks up the pieces?

They may be dysfunctional spiritualists with gnostic beliefs, but they have enough experience in the health and wealth (prosperity) movement to market shrewdly.

In the US, Bentley went on a Fox network show (Geraldo Rivera) and when the questions got a bit too hard his mike ‘died.’

He does not interview well at all.
I don’t know how the PR firm is going to handle that.

They are continuing to refuse to answer basic questions about finances and healing documentation.

The PR firm has been able to handle it so far, but the increased scrutiny in the religious world is getting dicey for them.

It’s one thing to get a pass from Strang Communications, it’s quite another to have to deal with more tradtional media. They have no use for excuses.

What is interesting to apologists and people who follow movements is not just the hard marketing, but the convergence of the extremes in charismatic teachings that they’ve pulled together in Lakeland.

8

tortoise 06.25.08 at 2:36 pm

A holy twitch or tic seems like a strange sort of manifestation to me.

A slight twitching in the hand or some facial muscles is something that I’ve come across: not particularly in Pentecostal circles or large-scale spectacles, but rather in the context of quieter and more liturgically formal prayer for healing. Within that context I took it to be a by-product of the Holy Spirit’s activity among us - not a manifestation sought or relied upon, but something that didn’t seem out of place.

Whilst there’s certainly plenty in the Lakeland/Dudley thing that sets off alarm bells, I don’t think a ‘pneumatic tic’ in itself is a danger sign. Not in itself.

9

fatprophet 06.25.08 at 4:44 pm

I thought Todd Bentley was bad but this is far worse than anything I have seen on his broadcasts.
I can not understand how anyone can say that God would want people to behave in this manner - doesn’t the apostle Paul talk about all things being done in order and for mee there was nothing her that was done in order in fact it put me in mind of Babel. I have to say I was always sceptical about the Toronto blessing especially after we had a visit at the pentecostal church I attended by some people who had been to Toronto and were sitting in the service laugh hysterically and barking like dogs - it did not feel right to me if one can use the word feel. There was no peace in my spirit about it at all.
On the other hand I have seen Kenneth Hagin preach on the God channel and I have seen him pray for people in a very calm, quiet manner with fairly striking results and while he may be from the same stream as Todd Bentley and co I would feel more comfortable with Kenneth Hagin.

10

Wood 06.25.08 at 5:12 pm

Question: is the fact that the Dudley Massive make prominent use of a graphic showing a nuclear explosion hilarious or scary, or both?

I mean, LAPSE OF TASTE, GUYS!

11

Kim 06.25.08 at 7:18 pm

Thanks, BD, for all the whistle-blowing you do. I think it is very unlikely that Richard, I, et. al. in the UK who comment here at Connexions will ever have to pick up the human debris of such a charismatic train-wreck, but forewarned is forearmed.

12

Ron Larson 06.26.08 at 10:10 pm

While Kenneth Hagin may have been more outwardly calm, the standard isn’t about one’s mere appearance, it’s simply is someone preaching Christ and Him crucified. Kenneth Hagin had numerous errors theologically, heresies in fact. The Copland’s and the Hinn’s and the Duplantis’ of this world to name just three regarded his as Dad Hagin. In reality Hagin trgically regurgitated alot of blasphemous teachings of both E. W. Kenyon and William Branham, two heretics that the LAtter Rain, Modern Day Apostles Porophets amd the Manifest Sons of God proponents. The Word is being fulfilled rapidly amongst us that there will come a time when men will not be interested in sound doctrin, and many false signs and wonders will occur. We nned to be ever vigilant in this dark hour where many are being led astray.

http://www.forgottenword.org/hagin.html

13

bill ross 06.29.08 at 6:46 am

I have been reading and studying about Bentley and connections to Paul Cain, Bob Jones, and other so called prophets and self proclaimed apostles that all seem to be tied together. Birds of a feather flock together. Jesus told his followers that they are not to lord it over the people as the heathens do but who would be great in the kingdom of heaven will be servant to all. When someone needs to proclaim himself a prophet or apostle in order to place himself in a higher position than fellow brothers and sisters in Christ then he is in violation of the word. If a prophet of God is not a 100% correct in a prophecy then he is not a prophet of God and needs to be removed from the church until he repents his sin against God and man. Woe be those prophets and priests who say thus saith the Lord when the Lord saith not.
This Lakeland revival is very much like the Toronto and Brownsville blessings which have caused such divisiveness within the christian community because the majority of christians are not good Bereans and do not study the word so that they can discern what is of God and bears good fruit and what is not. Too many christian’s fear and are made to fear that if they take a stand against a false teacher or false teaching that they are taking a stand against God. Did not Paul teach that if even he brings a different teaching or gospel that we are not to follow him, and he was a true apostle that loved and followed his Lord and Savior.
The Holy Spirit does not bring back a spirit of division within his own body. What better way for Satan to deceive an entire church community by simply taking over the pastor of a church or denomination or movement and imparting a deceiving spirit within that leader. When a pastor or other church leader brings back an impartation that he has received from someone else without a discerning mind and then imparts that spirit to the rest of the church by passing the fire on to the rest of the congregation he had better be sure that it is not the fire from hell and Satan.
God is a Great God and mighty worker of miracles and is not afraid to show that it is a valid and trustworthy miracle. I know he can raise the dead and heal the sick but I also know that a very large amount of so called miracles and healings are so often emotional hype with a very great hope. Which of us does not want to be healed? Does the cripple or the blind want to stay in that condition? Of course not. Yet I have seen people that felt that they were healed and claimed the healing upon leaving and yet were not healed. When Jesus healed, it was immediate, and apparent to all with no question and there was no need to wait a few hours or a week for the healing to take place, and no condemnation of little faith if the healing did not take effect. I have not seen any medical substantiation of any true miracles or healings such as an mri before and after, or x-rays, or any medical doctors giving glory to God because they have witnessed a dead person that they pronounced coming to life again at a later date.
I would pray that all followers of Christ would have true discernment of the Holy Spirit and other spirits that are not of God. The devil is called the great deceiver because he mixes just a little lie with a lot of truth, for how else could you be deceived. It is very easy to tell straight unadulterated evil from good, like it is easy to tell a drunk with a breath alcohol content of .4 from a drunk who is a .08 but the closer you get to the legal limit the easier it is to deceive. Read your Bible, know the Word 100% in order to come against heresy. Go with God.

14

fatprophet 06.30.08 at 10:45 pm

Thanks Ron, I have not heard Kenneth Hagin preach a lot so have not really studied what he has to say - on the couple of occasions I have heard him I did not hear anything that concerned me.
i will certainly listen a bit more intently next time he on and will check out the link.
I always find Rodney Howard Browne a bit strange as well but reckon he very similar to Kenneth Hagin is the way he speaks and his mannerisms
Thanks too Bill some interesting thought here and yes the last line very apt in these days.

15

Bene D 07.01.08 at 12:48 am

Sorry, Beth, from what I’ve read around this video, the guy in the video is Rodney Howard-Browne.

16

Anonymous 07.01.08 at 1:08 am

Justin Peters has written this on Lakeland:

http://www.adventuresinchristianity.com/?L=blogs.blog&article=3494

He was also interviewed by Todd Friel on Way of the Master radio about it as well as by Ingrid Scheuter on VCY America’s “Crosstalk.”

If you check out his site: (http://www.justinpeters.org) please be sure to see “demo.” This is an overview of his seminar exposing the WoF movement and is excellent!

Justin spoke at my church and comes highly recommended by my pastor, Dr. John MacArthur.

17

Thomas 07.11.08 at 1:42 pm

Interesting comments on the Florida & Dudley Outpourings. I went to Dudley a couple of months ago and was at the End Times Prophetic Mandate conference last week. I think of myself as fairly level headed and try to weigh what I hear and see against scripture.

There’s certainly some wacky stuff going on in Florida and Dudley. I didn’t see anything conclusive at Dudley, but heard a lot of talk and witnessed people claim healing. I’m not saying people haven’t been healed. I did witness the glory been given to God for the healings every time.

If you want to read of a group of people following Christ who got it wrong at times and had wacky stuff going on around them, just read the gospels.

If this outpouring is of God and people are being brought into God’s Kingdom, praise God. If this is not of God, but people are being brought into God’s Kingdom, praise God. Either way, pray that people will go on to grow in true faith and not fall away after the hype dies down.

We can sometimes get hung up on what is happening and try to analyse it with a fine toothcomb. Let’s move on from the signs, wonders and healings, and be ready to welcome new brothers and sisters in Christ.

18

Chadwick Harvey 07.22.08 at 6:00 am

Could Todd Bentley be another Jim Jones? In the early stages of his ministry there are striking similarities between Bentley and Jones. In 1955, Jones was prayed for a Latter Rain Pentecostal Conference by O.L. Jaggers who pronounced that he had a very special prophetic calling on his life. Years later when he founded the People’s Temple, Jones used faith healing to draw the masses much in the same way Bentley has in Lakeland. It may be a little premature to say Bentley is treading the same course as Jones, but I think it is a possibility we must be aware of. After all no one ever thought Jones would go to the extent he did by getting 918 people to commit suicide through drinking kool-aid laced with cyanide. Bentley’s claims show that he is very dangerous spiritually as he has placed much emphasis on angels, third heaven experiences, and has claimed experiences where his spirit left his body which is known to New Agers as astral projection. Could Bentley be even more than just a spiritual danger? Could he be leading his followers down the same course that Jim Jones led the People’s Temple in 1978 to the greatest mass cult suicide in history? I am drawing the comparisons and revealing Bentley’s false teachings at http://www.toddbentleyjimjones.blogspot.com

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