Todd Bentley again

Ah well then Kim, if I quoted John Wesley when he had to deal with Mary Lavington, a Camisard French prophet when her manifestations, words and behaviors brought great confusion to Fetter Lane Society…

would I be engaging in theological tabloidism?

“No, nor by any dreams, visions, or revelations supposed to be made to their souls, anymore than by their tears or any involuntary effects wrought upon their bodies.”

If I cut and pasted Charles Whitefield’s warnings and advice in his letter of 25th June 1739, to John and Charles Wesley, (re: The Shakers) would I be engaging in tabloid theology?

If I quoted Dr. John White on what he wrote about Godfrey the godly giggler - When the Spirit comes in Power 1989 - would I be contributing to making Connexions a theological tabloid?

I understand what you’re saying, Kim. The truth is, these posts aren’t really for regulars at connexions. There are lots of people out there searching for information about Todd Bentley. I can’t say I understand why he’s “taken off” in the way that he has, but many are being taken in by it. I’m just trying to do my little bit to help them keep their wits.

Hi - I understand that the video of Todd B punching, kneeing people who are ill is alarming. However, would it make any difference to you if yo knew that each of these people was healed? None of these people have complained. I visited Florida and was healed of a long standing condition.

http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=59184

July 10-12 - Fresh Fire people coming to the UK

According to the Church Times, “There is an anointing for debt-cancellation, where those present wave their paperwork in the air and those online press it to the computer screen.” Maybe Todd should start a Jubilee 2008 Campaign, for kindling sending Fresh Fire people to the G8 summit in Japan (though fire might carry a different metaphorical freight in Tokyo than in Florida).

Anticipating Todd’s healers coming to Swansea, I am praying to be afflicted by haemorrhoids just so that I can go to a meeting for a special anoiniting. If the tickets are sold out, will it be okay to go online and press my ass against the computer screen?

Responding to Gareth,

I am glad you were healed. Attribute this healing to a loving and merciful God who responds to your need and your faith in him. God will do his will, even in the arena of a man like Todd.

Many years ago there was Smith Wigglesworth who supposedly kicked a baby to heal her, kicked a woman to heal her and it all got over blown and trurned into urban legend among Christians who nee signs and wonders.

Todd is a wannabe who apparently thinks that since it was OK for Wigglesworth, its OK for him.

My heart was broken at what I witnessed on my tv screen. May God forgive this false teacher for the deception of his ministry.

Jude 1
17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Have you noticed how the man who was hit is smiling afterwards? How it appears he received healing? He certainly went up trusting Jesus didn’t he - stepped out of the boat, so to speak! Jesus when accused by the religious that the healing he was doing was demonic replied that the devil would not do that? (Matthew 12). I think we all need to be very, very careful - and to be honest some of the comments here sound very like something the Pharisees would say, including the accusations, the crudeness, the insults! Do you have the Spirit of Christ in saying such things? Be vigilant, yes, but God the Father through Jesus Christ is consistently being given the glory at this revival (yes He is). He will be glorified, but let us not become too religious in our reaction toward what we aren’t comfortable with - our Lord Jesus didn’t have much nice to say about those who stopped others entering the Kingdom! Instead, if you believe Todd is ‘of the devil’ pray for the guy and his team! If he is of God, pray for him and his team! As well, again either way - pray that God will use him mightily! All things work for good for those who love the Lord called according to His purpose. This is surely an opportunity for the glory of God to manifest! Amen!

Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a demon, blind and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the dumb man spake and saw. And all the multitudes were amazed, and said, Can this be the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This man doth not cast out demons, but by Beelzebub the prince of the demons. And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.

Grace & Peace to you all.

I came across your blog when doing a google search on Todd Bentley (TB) and heresy. I am based in Harrogate, another UK centre for the so called “Outpuring” revival. Todd Bentley was due to visit our area two weeks ago. Due to his commitments he did not come in person although sent his representatives. I am pleased to have found people who share my grave concerns over TB and his ilk. Harrogate churches continue to hold outpuring meetings. In fact pressure was put on our church pastor to sign up to this. However, after a number of our elders prayerfully attended the meetings they have decided that this is not a true revival and have chosen to distance themselves from it. I am truly thankful and see this as an answer to my prayers for the scales to fall from peoples eyes and see this revival for what it is - an act of Satan rather than God. I have been aware of TB for 3 years and have done much research into both him and his Latter Rain philosophies and am utterly convinced that it is lies, deceit and false prophecy. Reading your blog has given me confidence that I am not alone in thinking this and I will continue to pray for my town.

Interestingly, like in Lakeland, no mention has been made of the so called “Outpuring” in the press and non of my non-christian friends have mentioned hearing anything about it. As with Toronto and Pensecola before it, it appears to be a ministry only for itchy eared Christians.

I guess you could say obesity is a sign of accepting God’s abundance!!!

Or that gluttony is a sign that a person is given over to fleshly lusts…

This conversation could not get very messy!

Richard II

Isn’t obesity a sign of not getting off of one’s arse and getting some exercise?

Sheesh, there’s a lot of smugness around here.

Obesity can also be a sign of hormonal imbalance, or physical disability resulting in the inability to exercise, or compulsive eating because of depression.

Perhaps you’d like me to tell one of my own family members, who some days can barely walk and is in constant pain, to get off her fat arse and exercise, Wood?

Several questions about the video that we need to ask.

1. If Todd Bentley is saying “the Lord” told him to do this, then we ought to ask, would/did Jesus ever use a means of abuse or violence to heal?

2. If these things are being done in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, then is this something in keeping with His character?

3. Is it possible for demonic power to bring about signs, wonders, and healings?

Answers.

1. Jesus never used a means of abuse - kicking, kneeing, hitting, “mounting” (as he describes he did to one man, followed by choking him), “clothes lining” (and almost taking his head off, according to TB), banging legs against a platform, body slamming, or pushing people over (this is shown in some Utube clips of TB and/or his helpers) - for ANY reason. Jesus either spoke or touched gently for healing.

2. Jesus said “Learn of Me, for I am GENTLE and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Matthew 11)Jesus taught by example what it was to be gentle. He did not dominate people. He had compassion on the people, and healed as He was moved with compassion. James 3:17 says that “the wisdom that comes from above is first pure, peacable, gentle, willing to yield, full of compassion and good deeds….” Jesus lived every molecule of that verse. Gentleness is also listed in the fruit of the Holy Spirit. I can guarantee you that kicking a woman in the face with your biker boot doesn’t fit anywhere on the radar under the word “gentleness.” I’d even go so far as to say that if a person on the street was seen doing that, they’d be reported. The police would call it BATTERY. Then the kicker, slapper, slammer person would be slammed into jail.

3. In both OT and NT we see that within the demonic realm there is power. That power can turn a rod to snake, produce frogs, change water to blood, call up the dead, produce signs and wonders so that even the elect, if possible, might be deceived. There are numbers of scriptures for these.

Bottom line is that healings, signs, and wonders are not the filter through which we determine if something is really from the true and living God. Jesus said we are to look for fruit. Fruit would be the character, beliefs, and actions of the individual.

Then, I have a story concerning a personal friend of mine who was impacted adversely through the Lakeland Phenomena. (I reject “revival” as a descriptive word for what is going on there)

My friend lives in IN. She came and visited me a year ago. When she came, she had severe sores in her mouth and perpetual colon problems that would not heal. While she was here, the Lord Jesus Christ healed her. She experienced no more symptoms or pain from that time on. That is, until she went to a prayer meeting in IN (about 2 months ago) where a man who had “received the impartation” from Lakeland prayed for her. She and her daughter went to these meetings twice. After the second meeting, they both felt something was wrong with what was going on, though they couldn’t put their finger on it exactly. After those 2 times, my friend began re-experiencing problems with her mouth and her abdomen, but now it is more serious and she is in much more pain. She has been suffering greatly in progressive measure since getting “the impartation.” I ask, What IS Being Imparted?

Lastly, there are verses in the Bible OT and NT that make reference to people being slapped and abused. In the NT: “You put up with it when they make you their slaves, take everything you have, take advantage of you, put on airs, and slap you in the face.” II Cor. 11:20 NLT Paul wasn’t being complimentary. The “false apostles” dominated people, sucked them dry of their money, used people to promote their own agenda, exalted themselves, and evidently slapped people in the face!

There is a parallel to this in Ezekiel 34 when God rebukes the “shepherds” of Israel, the spiritual leaders. 4 “You have not taken care of the weak. You have not tended the sick or bound up the broken bones. You have not gone looking for those who have wandered away and are lost. Instead, you have ruled them with force and cruelty.” God was angry with those who were to care tenderly for the sheep and who instead ruled them with FORCE and CRUELTY.

Then we see this marvelous picture, which seems a sister passage to Psalm 23 - oh so beautifully! - and encourages all those who have been abused by “fat sheep” or shepherds who have padded their pockets with little old sheep’s funds, fleeced the women, and slapped the sheep around, that He will “search and rescue” them, bring them to a safe place, feed them, cause them to lie down in safety, bind up their wounds, strengthen the weak, and heal them!

11″For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search and find my sheep. 12I will be like a shepherd looking for his scattered flock. I will find my sheep and rescue them from all the places to which they were scattered on that dark and cloudy day. 13I will bring them back home to their own land of Israel from among the peoples and nations. I will feed them on the mountains of Israel and by the rivers in all the places where people live. 14Yes, I will give them good pastureland on the high hills of Israel. There they will lie down in pleasant places and feed in lush mountain pastures. 15I myself will tend my sheep and cause them to lie down in peace, says the Sovereign LORD. 16I will search for my lost ones who strayed away, and I will bring them safely home again. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak. But I will destroy those who are fat and powerful. I will feed them, yes—feed them justice!
22So I will rescue my flock, and they will no longer be abused and destroyed.

He will rescue His flock, and they will NO LONGER BE ABUSED AND DESTROYED.

The True Shepherd shows us His way…a path of peace, causing people to be at rest and to know SAFETY… gently leading those with young, leading us beside still waters, restoring our souls… gentle and humble in heart, easy to be entreated, making Himself of no reputation, taking upon Himself the form of a servant, laying His life down for the sheep.

Let us use the character of the true Lord Jesus Christ as our plumbline.

I don’t disagree with any of that Beth. And (though I hesitate to speak for him) I don’t suppose Wood does either.

Yeah, Wood, I know, but I find it symptomatic of a general attitude that it’s okay to laugh at fat people, because it’s their own fault anyway. I guess I’m hypersensitive to this because of a couple of friends/family members, who I know are doing everything they can to lose weight but are hindered by other factors out of their control. I hate the idea that people are laughing at them or judging them.

Chris, I don’t believe that any of Wigglesworth’s claims to have healed or to have raised people from the dead were ever substantiated - neither have I read anywhere that he kicked and punched people who came to him for healing.

Jesus certainly did some strange things, like stopping an adulteress form being stoned, rebuking his disciples for their arrogant attitude towards those who approached him, and healing the soldier injured by Peter’s sword. He also didn’t kick, or punch, or physically attack anybody.

So what exactly is the point of your comparison?

What christians should do in such cases is to pray. I did and so many others also, and God have made things cleares now than before. God have spoken through the recent circumstances.

We all should be praying for Tod. He wants to work for God but have made some bad choices. The thing now is that all those that went there should stay with the Lord in prayers and He wil make all things clearer.

Sorry to put a damper on all the comments who appear to support TB, but a few days ago I posted on my blog “Fresh Fires Leader Steps Down”. It seems that he has stepped down following his filing for a separation from his wife and he has been receiving marital counselling for three years!

Please read the Scriptures….It seems most of the people who support TB are hardly interested in what the Scriptures say but focus more on miracles.

Hi Sherree:

You express bitterness over those whom you feel judge falsely, but you turn around and judge them.

It isn’t Christianity or Christians you will face at the judgement. You will face Jesus Christ. Place your faith and trust in Him, not man, and He will save you and give you peace.

In Christian love,
Bud Press