This video has popped up in a number of different places. It gave me a smile.
What if Starbucks marketed like a church?
There is a certain point at which the “church” and “corporate enterprise” comparison breaks down, and it should. A church should be welcoming and comfortable, yes; but it should not sacrifice its values for popularity or discard any challenge to new members, either.
Whilst I’m at it — and this is so obvious that it shouldn’t need saying — although I’d rather see a full church than an empty one, we really do have to give up the notion that the church with the most members is the one that’s transmitting the gospel most effectively.
That is obvious, isn’t it?
Update: If this isn’t obvious to you, this post explains what I mean in words of one syllable. Kim adds some further thoughts here.
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Kim 11.16.08 at 12:11 pm
“Beyond relevance” - brilliant!
Methodist Preacher 11.16.08 at 10:28 pm
You have much to teach us about emptying churches.
Richard 11.16.08 at 11:18 pm
Call me Mr Thicky, but I don’t understand what you’re saying David.
Ivan the Crank 11.17.08 at 12:05 am
Our churches should be genuinely welcoming, but I struggle with how to identify newcomers so that we can follow up with them and not let them feel we didn’t care that they attended. Our church resembles some of the characteristics of this video, but our coffee is actually free and the first and last thing people find as they are coming and going.
Richard 11.17.08 at 12:18 am
Free coffee? You tempt me strangely…
But could I get a skinny, fairtrade, organic cappuchino?
Kim 11.17.08 at 7:07 am
On “emptying churches”, I seem to recall that our Lord himself excelled at it: see Luke 4:16-30. Jesus clearly wasn’t up to speed on the management and marketing techniques of our bilious friend David. What, no “Last Supper Latte” on the Passover menu? And the cross - how user-friendly! David would just love a sermon I once preached entitled “On Being Proud of Losing a Couple of Members”.
Corin 11.18.08 at 1:39 am
Once our Lord had got His dedicated disciples and empowered them from on high, the numbers went through the roof! A text out of context, Kim, is a pretext. Or to put it another way, if God is the Author of scripture , we are entitled to interpret scripture with scripture - and again - to rightly divide the WHOLE counsel of God. Numbers aren’t everything, but they are not nothing either. What’s that about the ‘fullness of the Gentiles’? Could it be about - tell it not in Gath - NUMBERS! Oh yes, and there’s a whole book devoted to the subject.
Ivan the Crank 11.18.08 at 6:40 pm
Sorry, Richard - only caffeinated or non-caffeinated with your choice of sugar and sugar substitutes and flavored non-dairy creamers. Actually, it’s free if you don’t want to make a donation to help cover the cost - kinda like worship and anything else we do in a church that depends only on offerings.
Richard 11.19.08 at 10:19 am
But Fair Trade, surely Ivan?
Ivan the Crank 11.19.08 at 10:26 pm
I would love to say “yes,” but I can not tell a lie. I don’t think so, but will check on it - all I know is that there is an early service attendee who donates the coffee on a regular basis. Fair trade would certainly be ideal.
dh 11.20.08 at 2:48 pm
Richard, it seems to me that Ivan’s “free coffee” seems pretty “fair” to me. Sorry Ivan that is not meant to be in disrespect for your coffe for calling it “fair” as opposed to “good”.
I’m being punny on multiple levels here.
Richard, I prefer to not have to pay double or at least a way higher price for my coffee. I know organic coffe is very expensive let alone this “fair trade” coffee. I guess one can get some Satbucks coffee it is bought with fair trade in mind. I get their coffee, it is good, affordable and I don’t have to think about the fair trade thing. If you want to buy the expensive organic stuff and donate it to Ivan I’m sure he wouldn’t mind.
Tony Buglass 11.20.08 at 11:32 pm
DH: “I prefer to not have to pay double or at least a way higher price for my coffee.”
The real question is whether what you pay for your coffe is fair. Or are you being sucked into the system which exploits and further impoverishes those who are already poor. Read Amos!
I don’t know whether you have Fair Trade as a campaign in the US, but it is a big and growing thing in the UK - see http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/. I don’t know how anyone calling themselves Christian can do anything other than support it wholeheartedly. And I refuse to buy products by Nestle, beccause they do exploit the poor.
Richard 11.21.08 at 10:39 am
It’s a myth that Fair Trade coffee is massively more expensive on the High Street. Most coffee shop chains in Britain now offer Fair Trade coffee as an option at the same price as their ‘regular’ blend.
My impression is that the Fair Trade movement hasn’t got as far in the US as it has in Britain. Would that be true to say?
Kim 11.21.08 at 11:57 am
Read Amos? That goddam Marxist? And how can Nestle exploit the poor? They make nice chocolates.
dh 11.21.08 at 3:10 pm
Well Richard, I DO buy fair trade coffee. I buy my coffee from Starbucks. Also now does one define “exploiting the poor”? I do know that some companies do that but one really needs to look into it further in these issues to see how accurate they are. I’m not downplaying the situation but many of the groups that claim “exploitation” have their own predisopsitions and have their own desires outside of the poor. Also many of these commodities have dramtic fluctuations in price that are outside of anyones control due to environmental, currency exchange fluctuations, etc. many fluctuations that affect the price of coffee and cocoa. Also I have done some research and many times the price per pound of the fair trade coffee is actually less than the non fair trade coffee. To me that doesn’t seem “fair” to the poor people or else there are some facts with regard to fair trade that people need to fully understand.
Richard, you are correct and I’m not that many times fair trade coffee and other type of coffee are the same price. To me what promotes “sustainability” is the promotion of the quality of coffee. Not all fair trade coffee is equal.
dh 11.21.08 at 3:12 pm
Tony and Richard, I do buy fair trade coffee. I may not intend to but I still do. At least give me credit for that.