Johan Hari in today’s Independent is well worth your time…
Johann Hari: The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling
The world isn’t just watching the Israeli government commit a crime in Gaza; we are watching it self-harm. This morning, and tomorrow morning, and every morning until this punishment beating ends, the young people of the Gaza Strip are going to be more filled with hate, and more determined to fight back, with stones or suicide vests or rockets. Israeli leaders have convinced themselves that the harder you beat the Palestinians, the softer they will become. But when this is over, the rage against Israelis will have hardened, and the same old compromises will still be waiting by the roadside of history, untended and unmade.
To understand how frightening it is to be a Gazan this morning, you need to have stood in that small slab of concrete by the Mediterranean and smelled the claustrophobia. The Gaza Strip is smaller than the Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people who can never leave. They live out their lives on top of each other, jobless and hungry, in vast, sagging tower blocks. From the top floor, you can often see the borders of their world: the Mediterranean, and Israeli barbed wire. When bombs begin to fall – as they are doing now with more deadly force than at any time since 1967 – there is nowhere to hide.
{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
Olive Morgan 12.30.08 at 12:12 am
Thank you, Richard.
dh 12.30.08 at 12:37 am
How about the self-harm of the Gazans supporting Hamas? It is clear that if the Fatah party and Pres. Abbas would have been supported we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in. Also, how about the responsibility of the Palastinians not to fire rockets during a cease-fire when Israel has never violated the cease-fire? I’m really sick and tired of all of the Hamas Palastinians can do no wrong and Israel can do no right campaign put on by these people. There would be no need for having a wall, etc. if it wasn’t for Hamas and Hezbollah commiting so many crimes toward humanity. How about all of the innocent people being used as shields on rocket facilities similar to the ones done by Saddam? No one is mentioning those crimes. How about some truth which is from the middle? I am one who believes Palastinians should have their country but I also believe Israel has a right to their country as well. However, only when the Palastinians stop their support of terrorists like hamas and Hezbollah. No one is mentioning all of the Israeli humanitarian aide being confiscated and stolen by the Hamas and hezbollah. No one is talking about Hamas and Hezbollah being supported by rogue nations like Syria, Iran and Al Quada.
Paul Martin 12.30.08 at 1:10 pm
Dh I would have preferred Fatah to be the dominant palestinian power. And that might have been the case if the US ( and indeed EU) had enabled the sort of peace deal that would have made them look more successful. But your country in particular couldn’t be bothered to be other than partial. It is your politicians who have sold both Palestinians and Israeilis down the river!
DH 12.30.08 at 2:52 pm
Oh Paul, I get tired of this “it’s all America’s fault”. The fact remains one SHOULD be partial in that Fatah is NOT terrorist and Hamas and Hezbollah ARE terrorist. Look at the facts. Look at all the missle strikes and suicide bombing that occurred BEFORE the election of Hamas. When missles and suicide attacks occur before an election one can’t help but be partial. The fact remains that the blame of having Hamas in power is the Palastinian peoples fault. THey voted and they must take responsibility for it.
How can one negotiate with people who state they will not be satisfied until Israel is not a nation? Israel has at least made strides by even having the Palastinians to vote in the first place and one for which I agree. But for you to state that the US and EU or even Israel should not be partial in light of the bombing initiated by Hamas and Hezbollah shows a little lack of forsight into the situation. I enjoy the discussion but to put the blame of the vote for Hamas on the US and EU when it was Palastinians shows your bias.
Kim Fabricius 12.30.08 at 4:33 pm
“Once in a while we ought to pause and declare indignantly that there is only one side with an army and a country: the other is a stateless dispossessed population of people without rights or any present way of securing them. The language of suffering and concrete daily life has been either hijacked or so perverted as … to be useless except as a pure fiction deployed as a screen for the purpose of more killing and painstaking torture - slowly, fastidiouly, inexorably. That is the truth of what Palestinians suffer. But in any case, Israeli policy will ultimately fail.”
That’s the late, great Palestinian-American public intellectual - and Episcopalian - Edward Said (who, by the way, was equally, if not more, scathing about the failures of Arab leadership - he detested “the fawning elasticity with regard to one’s own side that has disfigured the history of intellectuals since time immemorial”). He was writing in August 2002. No change there then.
DH 12.30.08 at 4:45 pm
Well Kim, the elections being allowed by Israel in Palestine and the rights that Palastinians have now has changed from when this article was written in 2002. I agree Israeli policy would have failed if there wasn’t elections allowed. I will say the biggest failure is the Palastinians failing to elect Fatah as the leadership as opposed to the current terrorist party of Hamas. The fact remains that Israel has allowed and sent hundreds of millions of dollars and after the aid is sent missles and suicide attack resume. What should one do in light of all that? How should Israel respond when after every time they open the borders continued attack by the Palastinian Hamas continues? Israel had no choice but to have a wall and some kind of blockade in response to these terrible acts by Hamas.
The only positive outlook for the future is that support for Fatah at the time of the election was in the 40% range:
“Of the Electoral Lists, Hamas received 44.45% and Fatah 41.43%[1] and of the Electoral Districts, Hamas party candidates received 41.73% and Fatah party candidates received 36.96%.[2]”
Thank God that there are around 40% of Palastinians who don’t support terrorism. The fact remains the Palastinian people must take responsibility for the Hamas “victory”. Israel was more than willing to bend over backwards to give Palastinains their own independent country but when the country votes in a terrorist organization what choice does Israel have? Maybe the next election Fatah can win and all of the goals that we all agree would be a benefit would resume? Peace can only be achieved when Hamas and/or Hezbollah are ousted. Is it difficult? yes but through God all things are possible. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Pray for an election where a non-terrorist party wins in Palastine.
Paul Martin 12.30.08 at 7:33 pm
Dh the point I was making if you would but read my contributions was that one should not be partial regarding the needs of Palestinian and israeli people. Justice is an equal right for them.
And YES your political establishment has failed in that and should face up to its responsibilities.
I would add that when it comes to God’s kingdom and concepts like justice, it is an obscenity and indeed a blasphemy to take cover behind the US or any other national flag!
DH 12.30.08 at 7:46 pm
I’m not taking cover under anything. God would not support any known terrorist organization. It is a known fact that Hamas and Hezbollah are known terrorist organizations. God also would not support any group which desires Israel the right to exist as a country in any capacity. I also never “hid behind the Us or any national flag” I understand the situation, have listened to Palastinian Christians who lived in the area ext.
You mentioned that the political establishment needs to face up to its responsibilities. I just found out that $85 million is being sent to the Palastinian people from the US. What has the EU done in the area of justice?
I agree justice is the right for both Palastinians and Israeli’s but justice does not include supporting terrorist organizations or deny’s Israel right to have a country. Also, I don’t deny the fact that Palastinians have the right to but only when terrorist organizations are not in power. Again I support Fatah.
Saying that God would not support any terrorist organizations is not “hiding by the US or national flag”. We all don’t want terrorism. When it comes to God’s Kingdom and concepts of justice, I believe it is an obsenity and blasphemy for to hide behind the Hezbollah and/or Hamas flags. My views are not from the point of view of any country but of what the facts are in the area. The facts are, independent from US, EU, Sri Lanka, Andorra, etc., is that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. That isn’t “partial” but the facts.
The greater responsibility is for the Palastinians in the majority to stop supporting terrorist organizations. Thank God for the 40% or so that don’t. For their sake I will pary for them and seek their justice.
Paul Martin 12.30.08 at 8:02 pm
Dh my question is simple.
Will you support a peace that involves territorial compromise and treats the aspirations of Israeli and Palestinians as equally important? Will you accept that each is equally entitled to justice?
Please leave everything else aside and answer that simple question !
Ontherun 12.30.08 at 9:13 pm
Excellent article from Johann Hari. Thanks for highlighting it Richard.
DH 12.30.08 at 9:59 pm
Paul, one must define justice and look at what is true justice as opposed to what two groups say is justice. Also, from my observation of what the leadership of the Palastinian nation (Hamas) is is for Israel to not be a nation. Also, there is some misunderstanding of the Israeli position. They have since the elections in 2002 never said that Israel does not have a right to be a nation. They may have changed their tune when rockets from Hamas and Hezbollah or suicide attacks began but that is different. I see no reason for Israel not to limit some of the priviledges due to changes in the environment by Hamas and Hezbollah. If Palastinians want the priviledges then they should not vote in known terrorists.
So one must define what are the aspirations, territorial and justice of both before one can answer that question.
If justice means that for Israel to exist as a nation and Palastine as a nation with the other aspirations when properly defined, agreed to and obtained by however with Hamas and Hezbollah in power I will reject it for it is never justice to have terrorists in charge of a nation. If the territorial aspirations of the Palastinians are for both Israel and Palastine to have their nation with no known terrorist organizations in power over Palastine then my answer to your question is yes. However, all of this is subject to change if Palastinians change to terrorists as leaders. In the end if Hamas or Hezbollah are able to get a nuke and blow up or level for example Tel Aviv then I would say at that time Israel would have a right to the entire land of Israel. If Syria and Iran attempt to take over Israel then I would say the land at the time of Soloman would be the right for the land of Israel. If none of that takes place and Palastinians vote in Fatah or non-terrorists as their leaders then they would have all of the full rights of an idependent country only with Israel as a nations side-by-side.
DH 12.30.08 at 10:01 pm
“They have since the elections in 2002 never said that Israel does not have a right to be a nation.”
I’m sorry change Israel to Palastinians. I’m bad.
Paul Martin 12.31.08 at 10:40 am
Dh I lack time to dbetae today but prior to Hamas victory I recall US contempt for Fatah. I see no signs that you are remotely prepared to address injustcices. Always a BUT gets in the way.
And sadly people die as a result of the BUT!
dh 12.31.08 at 2:34 pm
I also don’t believe you are remotely prepared to address injustices because you fail to have a harsh rebuke of known terrorists. Paul, the US did not issue contempt for Fatah. They stated that while they don’t particularly like Fatah, they in fact mentioned in the same conversation how Fatah is the better alternative to the terrorist Hamas and that Fatah is not a terrorist organization. You fail to mention those specific facts. Why do you do that? To show your own predispostion against Israel?
Sadly MORE people die when good people do nothing. Aren’t people dying at the hands of the terrorist Hamas? You fail to address that as the number one responsibility. You also fail to recognize that Hamas is a terrorist organization and fail to level blame on the Palastinians who voted for them.
When one addresses injustices one has to look at ALL of the injustices not just part. To me it is injustice that a known terrorist organization is in power and doing rocket launches with no reduction (period). That IS the big injustice. It is an injustice that the Palastinians can’t have their own nation in conjunction with Israel as a nation (the goal of over 40% of Palastinians) due terrorist organizations leading and continuing to cause rocket attacks. It is an injustice that Hamas is using “human shields” of rocket launching facilities not unlike Saddam in the Persian Gulf War.
So I just dont’ understand how one isn’t through in addressing injustices. It seems you want to be oversimplistic when one needs to look at ALL of the injustices and address them as the whole.
Notice I stated it is an injustice that the Palastinians don’t have their own nation. I just don’t believe they deserve it yet until Hamas is out of power and the terrorism by Hamas, Hezbollah or and other group stops and is condemned by the Palastinians themselves. Thank God that the Palastinians have President Abbas who even though he is in the minority recognizes that Hamas must stop and that any cease fire must be adhered to by Hamas to begin. Haven’t you read the rocket launches are even farther into Israel even after Israel is sdtrongly discussing a cease-fire. I hate it that Israel is going to war but it is necessary to eliminate the ability to do these rocket launches.
Sadly people die when people fail to address terrorist rocket launches with no ramifications for months. At least Israel recognized the last straw and is doing something about it.
Joel 12.31.08 at 5:45 pm
dh,
One of the problems I see is that when it comes to Israeli government attitude toward Palestinian statehood is that there is always a “when”, “bu” or “if.” I think one of the reasons that Palestinians support (wrongly) Hamas is that they believe Israel will always place some additional “condition” before recognizing Palestinian statehood.
I place much blame on the U.S., but I, too, blame Arab leadership that has found it convenient to their propaganda interests for Palestinians to remain marinalized (an understatement, perhaps). It is sad, but true that much Arab leadership prefers to have oppression of Palestinians as a political issue rather than finding a solution oriented toward justice.
One of my qualms about Hillary Clinton was how rapidly she turned from being a committed supporter of Palestinian rights to being an almost unqualified supporter of Israeli government actions when she decided to run for the U.S. Senate representing New York State. My hope and prayer is that as Secretary of State she will return to a more balanced approach to the hopes and aspirations of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
dh 12.31.08 at 8:44 pm
Joel, I appreciate the somewhat of the balance of your reply. I personally believe that Hillary changed when the situations on the ground in Israel/Palastine changed. As long as there were no missles launched or terrorist attacks Hillary, myself, Condi Rice, Bush and everyone were full board for a two state solution. However, when these attacks occur (love the second paragraph you mentioned
) then one has to delay or rethink the position. I agree that initially Israel was somewhat late pre 2000 to the concepts. However, as the Israeli government thought it through they went straight toward elections in 2002 and stated very clearly that if Palastinians voted for Fatah (I mentioned they had reservations but supported nonetheless) they would move faster toward the 2 state. The fact remains Palastinians chose terrorism.
I still don’t blame the US as much as you do. Who are the ones voting? Isn’t it the Palastinians?
The fact remains the Israeli’s have made some dramatic strides toward the 2 state but Palastinians continue to say 1 state with no Israel and/or do things that highjack what Israel desires ultimately. I see no reason to promote a 2 state solution when terrorist bombings are occurring. That must stop and Fatah when the next election cycle before we can even begin to start that discussion. Israel has removed 90% of the settlements in Palastine. To me it is less than “conditions” but the object of justice for Israel to demand the basics: no terrorism and no leadership which supports terrorism.
A little over a decade ago a 2 state solution was rejected outright by Israel. Then Israel has it as a goal until a few years ago (starting around 2001-2002) when Hezbollah and Hamas began their terror campaign till now.
Why should Israel give in now at a time where rockets , missles and suicide campaign are being conducted as we speak? The fact remains that any negotiations require negotiating with terrorists. Until those terrorists are out of power then I see no resolution of the matter. However, I’m an optimist with regard to the Palastinian people over 40% supported Fatah showing those particular people do not want terrorism. As that number grows to where an election makes Fatah the majority then at that time dual state will be achieved. If Israel goes against those statements then I will be harsh toward Israel. However, the past 15 years we cannot deny the strides Israel has done to make the situation better than otherwise. At least they have been making the attempt until the people shoot themselves in the foot. Israel can do nothing about people shooting themselves in the foot.
I understand that over 20 years ago Israel was hardnosed against 2 state. Now Israel is open to it. Come on at least recognize the positives. The concept of Israel, US, etc. can do no wrong is really totally unrational. Then to state those things in such a way as to overlook the terrorism by the Palastinian leadership at a time when missles are being fired and terrorism is being done with “human shields” is totally irrational and to me shows hypocisy by those who are anti-Israel or US.