How would you respond to this sign?

I’m guessing that’s one pub you’ll not be going to on Thursday then!! ;o)

Wander in and say “I’m Troy…”

Would work fantastically well if you’re short, middle-aged, with hairy legs.

The simple answer to the question is that we all need Good Friday because we’ve already had way too many naughty Thursdays and every other day of the week. How you raise the issue with the establishment with grace is the difficult part.

I guess the first thing to consider is that the people running the place may not realise how offensive the message is. A calm, friendly chat may be all it takes to get them to change their blackboard.

I’d probably do nothing on account of being offended. (Seriously)

I do wonder, though, whether Jesus would go in and have a drink?

Is it just me, but it made me laugh….

I’m into the idea that God leaves signposts all over the place and usually way ahead of where we would expect to find Him….

Don’t know what I’d do as I don’t know the contexy and the culture. In my village, I’d go in, have a drink and have a chat with the bar staff about the sign…see where they are coing from. If I didn’t know the area, stick my dog collar on, order a pint and then do my best ‘northern male’ with the bar staff and try and make a joke about it—there could be an opening…

…on 2nd thoughts… best to blog about it or leave a comment on a blogsite (ooops I just did)

Kim, did Jesus Christ protest too much when He used a whip to throw out the money changers. Did Paul, protest too much when he says “Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you.” (using Greek phrasing showing that it was in anger that he said that).

With regard to your prayer Kim, I think in one sense that seems to be just as insulting as the sign. If one wants to talk about violence one only needs to refer to the Dark Ages and other periods that were way more violent than the ones now. Do we live in a violent culture? yes Is it more in the US than other places in the world? no. Does that make it an excuse for the US ? no However, what is the point of the posting of the prayer but to insult? It seems to have no context to the conversation ot the picture being presented here on this thread. I also don’t think it is silly to protest the Springer Opera. Jesus protested against the moneychangers. I see no difference other than which sin is being promoted which to me are equivilent. To me all sin is “real corruption here”. I will say in agreement to you that “we should complain with contempt camouflaged by courtesy, graciousness, and restraint.” I agree with the statement you said here. Restraint? to what extent. If it is “throw your pearls before swine” incident then yes. One should restain themselves from throwing pearls before swine.

My first thought on the sign is from Scripture. “What shall we say then shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound? God forbid! How are we who are dead to sin live any longer in it?”

Oops. for “sinner” read ‘unbeliever”

Martin, why don’t we focus on the problem of the culture of the people around us as opposed to the factual statements that Christians have toward that sign? For me I see it as unbiblical for us to indirectly condone the sign as “being cleaver” when in fact it is not in that it is immoral. Why not focus on the problem of the culture of being intolerant of absolute truth claims? Remember Jesus NEVER condoned sin. In fact I believe that we through the term “legalism” around when that is refering to the attitude of the statements given as opposed to what is said. For me I go with what is Biblical as opposed to what culture says as being “old-fashioned”. People thought what Noah said about an upcoming flood as being “old-fashioned” and I would suspect as being “legalistic” but that didn’t change the truth of what Noah said. The same goes with Sodm and Gomorrah. The same goes with John the Baptist when he said “repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand”.

For me one needs to address the problems of culture as opposed to correcting people to say things that really condone wrong behavior or sin. Jesus did meet with prostitutes and sinners but to suggest indirectly that Jesus in anyway condoned sin or implied the condoning of sin is inccorect. Remember Jesus did acknowledge the woman caught in adultry as sinning by saying “go and sin no more”.
Was it judgemental for John the Baptist to proclaim “repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand”? or Judgemental for Jesus to throw out the moneychangers with a whip? To me judgemental is based on the attitude and heart of the statements said as opposed to the statements themselves. I believe one can speak the truth in love. If one speaks the truth without love then that is what is truly judgemental. Not every direct truthful statement made to someone is judgemental even if the current culture says otherwise. To me that begs the question how we can get culture to not have a wrong attitude without condoning behavior that we know is wrong be it indirectly or directly? Sometimes it requires determining who are swine and who are not aka “Cast not your pearls before swine.” (Remember Jesus said this and that many in this current culture would call that statement “judgemental” to infer that some people are swine.) We truly need to put Christ in proper context across ALL of the statements, life, etc. while He lived while on earth and before. “I came not to do away with the law but to fulfill the law.”

Beth, I really liked your idea of the approach. I would add the Truth of the resurrection to your statement because Good Friday is worthless without the Glorious resurrection of Easter.

Rachel, I totally agree with what you say. However, can one point out the problem of the sign to the owner without judging? I believe so as long as it is said in love. I totally agree if it said to the owner without love then it would be to salve ones conscience. What I’m really trying to do is put the proper definition of “judging” in its rightful place. Otherwise, we would wrongly judging Scripture and say “John the Baptist was judging when saying repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand” when in fact he wasn’t judging at all but staing truth in a loving way so that “as many come to repentence”. Thereby being love by leading people into eternal life.

I personally believe the term “judging” in today’s culture is way to broad then it actually is. Not all “pointing out sin” is judging.

Rachel, I think I disagree with you. I would tentatively suggest that salving the conscience, in such cases, is perhaps a result of actually having done something right. Similar actions I can remember taking over the past year or so - I have complained in a bookshop about anti-Islamic literature that was stocked, told Paperchase that I find their fluorescent Jesus money-boxes offensive, and argued with a Rabbi about his negative interpretation of Christian festivals. In only one of those cases did my action make any obvious difference - the bookshop immediately took copies of the offending book off the shelves once I had pointed out its racist content. But I nonetheless felt that I had stood up for my beliefs, and that I had no choice but to do so. I also hope that I might have spurred some people on to thinking about issues of tolerance and faith that might otherwise have passed them by. (I hasten to add that I have faced similar challenges from others to my own behaviour or attitudes!)

Personally, I would welcome being told if I had said or done something offensive or tasteless out of ignorance or misunderstanding.

Beth - thanks for your response. You’ve made me think - I can see your point - however, after a church council and synod in 24 hours my brain is too tired to make an intelligent response.