The BNP and the Church: the Word of God must not be muzzled!

by Kim on April 19, 2010

The Synod of Wales in the URC has just emailed me a “Pre-Election Briefing for Church Leaders: Making Public Statements”, which comes from the “Joint Public Issues Team: Baptist, Methodist and United Reformed Churches Working Together”. This italicised paragraph from the briefing is followed by my response to the Synod. I would be interested in comments, especially from ministerial colleagues.

Charities must not support or oppose a political party or candidate. The Methodist Church has, for example, stated that “racism is a denial of the gospel” and has urged people to vote for positive policies of inclusion and not for racism or division. It would be acceptable to produce a statement along these lines. However it would not be acceptable to name particular parties, for example “Methodist Church urges members not to vote for the BNP”.

Now here is a reason if ever there was one for the Church to cease to stand under the umbrella “charity” (which we presumably do for financial reasons - a stance in itself quite morally questionable). Particularly in areas where the BNP has a real chance of success, or even of making an impact, the church must not be mealy-mouthed but must preach and teach confessionally, publicly, and unconditionally that for Christians to vote for the BNP, let alone belong to the BNP, constitutes heretical belief and blasphemous behaviour. Any church that would muzzle the Word of God when it comes to a platform of racism, fear, and hatred is an apostate church: Anathema sit!

Yours in Christ (not Caesar!)
Kim Fabricius

{ 79 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Paul Martin 04.19.10 at 4:35 pm

Well I couldn’t give a flying …. about charity on this matter. I am making a point of condemdning the BNP by name from the pulpit. I intend to plenty more of it in the next 17 days. They are the anti gospel - as simple as that!

2

Peter Banks 04.19.10 at 5:12 pm

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea….

Just a thought!

3

Richard 04.19.10 at 6:10 pm

I’m surprised by this. The Methodist Conference decided a while ago that membership of the bnp is incompatible with Methodism, so I don’t see how we do anything other than urge people not to vote for them. Their policies are sinful and we must say so.

4

Paul Martin 04.19.10 at 6:25 pm

I might on Sunday say that I would like to explain that the BNP are a nasty organisation with clear Nazi roots and that their racism etc is incompatible with the gospel but that I can’t tell them what they have just heard because charity law won’t allow it.

5

Kim 04.19.10 at 7:04 pm

The BNP is contesting all the seats in the old South Wales West region, including Gower (Adrian Jones) and Swansea West (Alan Bateman), the patch where I minister and where Richard used to minister. The BNP has 21 candidates in Wales, and some 340 in UK. Our local Churches Together (Cytûn) is holding a Question Time for the Swansea West candidates tomorrow at the local Catholic church (St. Benedict’s), but as far as our secretary knows (I have just spoken to him) Mr. Bateman will not be in attendance.

6

Paul Martin 04.19.10 at 7:15 pm

In Torridge and west Devon, the BNP have put up a candidate called Nick Baker. He is also Grand Master of the Orange Lodge in Devon - how much bigotry can one man manage?

Baker was invited to hustings at Tavistock and the Christians Together hustings ( regrettably) in Bideford where I live. He accpeted invitations to both but has cried off sick. Both times they tried unsuccessfully to get one of their national organisers to take Baker’s place but both times this was refused.

At Christians Together hustings a couple of us gave out Hope not Hate leaflets. The same will happen at the final hustings in Torrington whether the bounder turns up ot not.

Sadly they are a distraction. This has been a fraudulent election so far. Soon I think we will need to resist what the nice Mr Clegg has called “savage cuts in public expenditure.” But that is for a later time especially as no party is levelling. Caesar is as duplicitous as a Madoff wet dream!

7

Kim 04.19.10 at 7:36 pm

“Nick Baker” - satanic by name, satanic by nature.

8

Kim 04.19.10 at 7:46 pm

Yes, those “savage cuts in public expenditure” - and the current plague of taxaphobia - again, as in the US, “freedom” has been reduced to having disposable income and consumer choice. With Cicero, O tempora! O mores!

9

Richard 04.20.10 at 9:54 am

Another thought: usually, the Methodist Church circulates these things to it’s ministers on t’interweb, but there’s no sign of this one. I wonder if that is significant?

10

Kim 04.20.10 at 10:49 am

“Don’t ask, don’t tell”? Or, more accurately, “Don’t tell, don’t ask”? Or better still, the wisdom of the serpent, the innocence of the dove? However, ignorantia juris non excusat.

11

Richard 04.20.10 at 10:57 am

The JPIC don’t even have this on their own website. Very odd.

12

Mike Claridge 04.25.10 at 5:27 pm

Lichfield Diocese does make a stand and gets BBC coverage as a result. The advice from the Diocese is that churches should not invite the BNP or other extremist parties to take part in hustings events held on church property

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8642715.stm

13

Nick Baker 04.27.10 at 4:38 pm

For those ill-informed commentators in the comments above:-

Paul Martin - I did not cry off sick, I was prevented by work commitments from attending each of those hustings. On each occassion another BNP candidate, rather than a ‘national organisor’, offered to stand in for me.
My membership of the BNP and the Orange Order does not mean I am a bigot, simply an advocate of the reformation principles and a patriot. Rather, your ignorance of these matters betrays your own bigotry.
The “Hope Not Hate” leaflets of which you speak are funded and produced by the criminal communist group Searchlight. The latest edition being handed out at this election is particularly vile.
I look forward to confronting your lies at Torrington!
Kim - Presumably Nick Clegg is a devil worshipper? Grow Up.

14

Kim 04.27.10 at 7:21 pm

Who said anything about Nick Clegg? As for you, Nick Baker, if the Prada fits, wear it.

15

Paul Martin 04.27.10 at 8:38 pm

Well Mr Baker the invite was for you not for any organiser.

I have checked the info of Hope not Hate and your guys seem to have shown their fair display of bigotry. Read the history of Griffin and the other Andrew Brons your Euro MEPs. I will enlighten you if necessary but only an idiot or a knave would not be appalled by the record of these two men.

Let me state clearly that your party are no patriots. You have a history of sowing division between communities. Your first leader John Tyndall declared Mein Kampf to be his doctrine. And your recent Publicity Chief Mark Collett declared AIDS to be a friendly disease.

In short you are but maggots on the body politic.

Finally your party’s roots in race hatred are contradictory to the gospel. In short I suggest you Mr Baker repent of you blasphemy!

16

James Martin 04.27.10 at 8:56 pm

Sooo Nick Baker you are a patriot, supporting England for the world cup then i presume?

17

Paul Martin 04.27.10 at 8:59 pm

Mr Baker, kindly tell me which church you belong to and their view of your BNP involvement. Just straightforward answer please.

18

Nick Baker 04.27.10 at 9:13 pm

There is nothing in our manifesto which contradicts Gospel teachings. Indeed, in the recent debate between Nick Griffin and the leader of the Christian Party, George Hargreaves, Mr Hargreaves ackowledged that there is much common ground between the two parties.

The BNP has evolved (like all parties do) into a mainstream nationalist party. Let us not forget that the Labour Party has its roots in far left socialism, with many former communist members in its ranks.

Kim - Yes, very witty.

19

Nick Baker 04.27.10 at 9:52 pm

United Reformed Church. They don’t ask my politics - I don’t ask theirs!

20

Paul Martin 04.27.10 at 9:57 pm

Over to you Kim!

21

Kim 04.27.10 at 10:34 pm

Nick, you are ignorant, because the URC, in recognising that racism is a heresy (as well, of course, as a sin) regards membership in the BNP as incompatible and irreconcilable with Christian faith. If you deny that you are racist, that makes you a liar as well as a tenthwit and a heretic. Oh, and your extreme nationalism make you an idolator too. Needless to say, your salvation hangs by a thread of repentance.

22

Paul Martin 04.27.10 at 10:37 pm

I have just found this article from a URC source -

http://www.urc.org.uk/what_we_do/general_assembly/no_to_racism

Indeed every member of the URC I have known and I write as someone with a number of URC friends who preaches regularly in the local URC, is of Kim’s view. The BNP is quite simply not an option for any Christian - no ifs or buts!

23

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 7:53 am

Mr Baker is according to one article I have read the sub regional organiser for the BNP in Devon. Accepting his point as to why he missed earlier hustings, I have read emails from organisers of Tavi hustings which referred to him having “cried off” which I interpreted as meaning being unwell. Got that one wrong obviously. The inference re person who asked to stand in is in line with the message from Tavi. I simply reported what was written and trusted to be the case.

Finally, on a substantive point, this raises matters of church discipline and the potential for the mission of God to be brought into disrepute!

24

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 8:17 am

Kim - How does my ‘extreme’ nationalism make me an idolator? I do not use icons or the like. Furthermore, what qualifies you to judge me and brand me ‘racist’, without knowing me or having listened to a word that I have said?

This smacks of prejudice, something which I am regularly (and wrongly) accused of, and makes you a hypocrite.

The salvation of our nation hangs by a thread, not my own, which depends largely on the discretion of my accountant - my minister having decided long ago that despite my politics I am indeed a decent human being.

25

Kim 04.28.10 at 8:28 am

In order that Christ be not dishonoured, for the sake of the weaker brethren, i.e. the impressionable, and, above all, in loving concern for the lost soul himself, that he repent, if I knew any church member to be a member (and a fortiori a proselytising member) of the BNP, I would apply Matthew 18:15-17 and I Corinthians 5:9-13.

26

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 8:48 am

Nick you may well have many good characteristics - I doubt that not for a moment. I have known all too many people who are much better than their opinions.

However, if I discovered a member of any church where I had pastoral responsibility to be a member of a racist organisation as the BNP is ( even if like you they protest that they are not themselves racist) I would as the Methodist Church requires take the sort of disciplinary action to which Kim refers. Why? Beacuse Christ must not be dishnoured by his church.

It might pain me on a personal level but the path of Christ is our calling. And yes I would pray for the person involved to turn from that path of destruction.

27

Kim 04.28.10 at 8:49 am

Nick, extreme nationalists always confound God with country and drape the cross with the flag. For extreme nationalists, their ultimate identity lies in being (in this case) “British” (which term itself begs an enormous number of historical and cultural questions); for the baptised, their ultimate identity lies in being disciples of Christ - and Christ alone. Stick an “and” in there - like Christ and nation - and you are, ipso facto, an idolator. Christians make lousy patriots. Idolatry, btw, has nothing to do with “icons” - or do you think that Orthodox Christians are all idolators? If so, you are yet again showing your ignorance.

As for the racism, you are a member of the BNP, ergo you are a racist. I would not have to have known Goebbels to know that he was anti-Semitic.

Finally, as for what you so melodramatically, indeed hysterically, with typical BNP fear-mongering, refer to as “our nation hang[ing] by a thread”, well, if anyone’s got the shears it’s the BNP.

28

Richard 04.28.10 at 9:37 am

Nick - I haven’t much to add to what Kim and Paul have said.
Except to acknowledge the common ground of the Christian Party and the BNP that you mentioned.

But that’s to the Christian Party’s dishonour, not the BNP’s credit.

29

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 9:53 am

The christian Party is fast losing all credibility amongs Christians

30

Kim 04.28.10 at 10:21 am

As there can be no such thing as a “Christian” state - in the realm of politics there can also only be the Church, which is itself a polis - a fortiori a “Christian” political party must be suspect and repudiated. Over sixty years ago, in the wake of WWII, Karl Barth wrote:

“To institute special Christian parties implies that the Christian community as such has no claim on the support of all its members for its own political line. It implies that it cannot help but allow the non-Christians in the State to consolidate themselves in a non-Christian bloc in order to enforce their own anti-Christian line. The Church’s supreme interest must be rather that Christians shall not mass together in a special party, since their task is to defend and proclaim, in decisions based on it, the Christian gospel that concerns all men. They must show that although they go their own special way, they are not in fact against anybody but unconditionally for all men, for the common cause of the whole State.”

Karl Barth, “The Christian Community and the Civil Community”, in Against the Stream (London: SCM, 1954), p. 45.

I submit that what Barth says here still goes.

31

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 11:06 am

Kim - Some interesting points. Would a nation that constitutionally describes itself as Christian be invalid? Is our Constitution of 1688 therefore invalid?

With regard to your earlier comments - Goebbbels very publicy peddled an anti-semitic line, therefore you would not have had to meet him to find that out! I have made no such statements, racist or otherwise, so you therefore assume that I am racist because of the actions of others. Prejudice. Again.

You have all made your mind up that the BNP are beastly, vile racists, therefore all BNP members are beastly, vile racists. An over generalisation if ever there was one.

Incidentally, I despise melodrama ( a very un-British trait), even in politics. I was simply paraphrasing you, when talking about my salvation.

32

Richard 04.28.10 at 11:18 am

>> “I have made no such statements, racist or otherwise, so you therefore assume that I am racist because of the actions of others. Prejudice. Again”

Standing as a candidate for the BNP is a racist statement. Racism is fundamental to the BNP’s whole agenda. The game is up with the opening words of the party’s mission statement: “The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia.”

33

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 11:45 am

What does the word “racist” mean or imply to you?

Once we can agree on a definition then perhaps we can decide whether I really am.

34

Richard 04.28.10 at 12:28 pm

It’s not about you, Nick, but what the BNP stands for:
“The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples”
“The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples”
The whole programme is built on a foundation which emphasises racial distinctions and barriers, and which seeks to inflame fear, or even hatred, of “those not like us”. In contrast, the Christian gospel recognizes only one humanity, made in the image of God and for which Christ died.

35

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 1:37 pm

Almost there. We do not seek to inflame fear or hatred. We simply recognise that differences do exist between races and cultures, and that in many instances enforcing ‘integration’ cause more problems than it solves.

I do not believe in the ‘racial sepremacy’ theory. Rather that different races and cultures are suited to different environments. This does not imply that we would deny entry to everybody who is ‘different’, rather that entry has been allowed, up to now, to anybody who is different.

We are a small nation with limited space. It makes sense for all sorts of reasons not to overcrowd these islands.

I fully understand where you are coming from on these comments and am glad that a degree of rational debate has been entered into, however you have yet to convince me that I am wrong. Or maybe I’m just stubborn.

36

Richard 04.28.10 at 2:38 pm

I doubt I could convince you, Nick, but I would like to try. Read your manifesto again. Better yet, read some of the online forums where your fellow -travellers hang out. Do you not see language which is designed to stir up fear and hatred?

By coincidence, I’ve ju

37

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 3:04 pm

Just…..?

Our manifesto for this election is actually very well presented and well written and contains a comprehensive set of policies to cover every aspect of national life.

Online forums do not decide policy or are necessarily representative of the BNP membership. They are notoriously riddled with infiltrators and ‘agent provocateurs’.

38

Richard 04.28.10 at 3:19 pm

…(ju)st picked up a copy of the Christian Institute’s “Election Briefing 2010″. There’s not much I can agree with in it, except for, “It seems to us that the central principles of that party (the BNP) enshrine beliefs which completely contradict the Christian faith.”

From the BNP website: “All these facts point inexorably to the overwhelming and extinguishing of Britain and British identity under a tsunami of immigration”, “We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.” “The BNP believes that there should be absolutely no further immigration from any Muslim countries, as it presents one of the most deadly threats yet to the survival of our nation.”

To my eyes, that’s the language of hatred and fear. You might disagree of course — but this is my site, and I do get the last word.

39

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 4:09 pm

Of course. Will chat later

Good luck to you and best wishes.

40

Kim 04.28.10 at 5:08 pm

Nick, the only really significant difference between the BNP and the Nazis - with your common obsession with racial and national purity and tactics of fear-mongering and lies - is opportunity. Hopefully, you won’t get yours.

41

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 6:29 pm

Let me ask whether the views exressed here are racist

42

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 6:31 pm

Here is the link which I asl if the views expressed in it are racist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRKk2K3fMk0

43

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 8:27 pm

Yes they are racist. They were recorded five years ago by a student taping someone who was press officer at the time.

He is no longer a party officer, in fact I’m not sure if he is still a member.

Gordon Brown doesn’t like racists does he? Or maybe he doesn’t like those who disagree with him and labels them ‘bigots’. Sorry, a distraction there.

If we start from the point the BNP are racist, therefore Nazi, and all it’s policies will inevitably lead to the gas chamber, who has the right answers?

Are we simply to accept unlimited immigration? Forever? Do we concrete over our countryside in order to house the half million new arrivals every year?

If racism is wrong, what is the right answer? Do we have an immigration policy or not?

44

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 8:39 pm

When did he cease to be an officer?

Ok I will find a more recent one after the football. I am still hoping that you will reject the BNP.

45

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 8:50 pm

No chance. But keep trying. It’s a British trait.

46

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 9:04 pm

But surely as Christian you would not wish to be linked to racism. I can find plenty more ammo - but I confess watching Inter knock Barca out of the Champions League is too good to miss.

47

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 9:33 pm

Well what about this? Nice friends!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBV-QDzSEYA

48

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 9:49 pm

I’ve seen that video and plenty of others like it. Plenty of disinformation there - particularly the young black kid who would be ‘deported’ (no he wouldn’t) etc.

Some views expressed are done so with more stridency than is ’socially acceptable’ and with language I would not use.

How do you feel about anti-white racism? Indeed state-sponsored anti-white racism. It’s all dressed up in the guise of ‘positive discrimination’ of course but amounts to the same thing.

If anti-black / Asian racism is bad, surely anti-white racism is too?

49

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 10:04 pm

Shared views with the Ku Klux Klan? Get real!

50

Nick Baker 04.28.10 at 10:20 pm

I’ve got better things to do than dressing up in bed sheets and sleeping with my sister.

51

Kim 04.28.10 at 10:30 pm

If anti-black / Asian racism is bad, surely anti-white racism is too?

That’s true, Nick. But here is the difference: the two are asymetrically related. White racism is systemic, institutionalised in the UK, black racism is not; which is why white racism is a grave social problem, while black racism is not. Nor is black racism at the heart of any political party, while the BNP is racist at its core.

But keep trying, Nick: as you say, it’s a British [and American, and German, and Polish, and Chinese, and Zambian ...] trait.

52

Paul Martin 04.28.10 at 10:36 pm

Re a previous point, nobody minds a sensible debate on immigration. It is the immature terms of that debate as conducted by the BNP.

And as for Griffin cosying up to the Ku Klux Klan and boasting about his hiding his true agenda, Nick you should be ashamed of yourslef for collaborating with that! If you think Duke and the KKK are acceptable then you really do have issues.

I’d love to help you but if you put your loyalty in such a direction then there is nothing I or anyone else can do. It is your soul after all, I guess!

53

Nick Baker 04.29.10 at 8:24 am

To paraphrase Cromwell :- “Nick Griffin is not the BNP, and the BNP is not Nick Griffin”.

54

Paul Martin 04.29.10 at 8:49 am

Disowning your leader?

Why do so many of your prominent figures have mrky extreme even fascist backgrounds/ Why are so many on record as making outlandish racist statements?

You have all the clues telling you to leave!

55

Nick Baker 04.29.10 at 10:50 am

I am not disowning the leader - lest I be misquoted. However, the BNP, like all political parties, trade unions, fraternal associations, churches etc. is made up of it’s members and does not revolve solely around it’s leader, despite the media hype.

If I took your advice and left the BNP (not likely pal) where would my natural home be?

56

Paul Martin 04.29.10 at 4:41 pm

As they say if you sleep with flees you get infested. Guess being a member of BNP does something similar.

And I thought the people trying to remove Griffin were the more extreme characters like Mark Collett.

Still I have got too much work to do today to spend any more time on the British wing of the Ku Klux Klan!

57

Richard 04.29.10 at 4:41 pm

But you do seem to want to distance yourself from NG, and lots of other party members. ..

58

Bob Gilston 04.29.10 at 5:12 pm

Nick.
Forgo your deposit.
Stand down from this election.
Leave the BNP.

You cannot distance yourself from the clearly racist core of the BNP’s policies.

59

Paul Martin 04.29.10 at 5:26 pm

Do it and I will publicly give you credit at the Torrington hustings.

Then take time before finding a new home.

Certainly as long as you stand for the BNP, you are tarred with the sort of stuff og which I can find loads of videos etc. It makes sense.

60

Nick Baker 04.29.10 at 6:02 pm

Knock yourself out.

I did try earlier to post a comment saying that I may choose to air my views with less stridency than other members, however this does not imply any less belief in British nationalism.

Indeed, I shall defend MY position and the BNP manifesto with utmost vigour next week.

Any heckling, barracking or attempt to deny my right to freedom of speech will be met with the contempt it deserves.

61

Bob Gilston 04.29.10 at 6:08 pm

Nick
It is your right to defend your position.
You cannot defend the BNP’s position in relation to the Christian faith.

62

Kim 04.29.10 at 6:08 pm

Nick, why should a Christian want a “natural home”? Our commitment to any political party will always be ad hoc, provisional, under review, and vigilantly critical. Christians are aliens, exiles, refugees in this world (cf. Hebrews, I Peter, and the 2nd or 3rd century Epistle to Diognetus) - and that goes for the world of politics too.

Which, btw, is why it is our vocation to be gracious, not hostile, to strangers from strange lands. In the Bible there is a constant covenant refrain to welcome foreigners - and the prophets remorselessly invoke God’s judgement and indict Israel for its failures in international hospitality. Indeed Israel’s chronic xenophobia is one of the primary causes of her downfall and exile. The Bible is so clear here that only those with darkened minds, hardened hearts, and sinister motives could not see it - or the ignorant and weak on whom they prey.

63

Paul Martin 04.29.10 at 6:26 pm

Nobody has introduced the subject of heckling other than you. Whilst it has its place I can’t claim to be any good at it.

I was simply trying to be helpful. I was taking you seriously in your saying you are not racist. This is hardly compatible with either video which I put on. You can’t stand for a party which has been giving reassurances to the Ku Klux Klan and expect to be taken seriously in stating you are not a racist.

I just wanted to help you step away from being liked with an unhealthy party.

Every party has leaders with dodgy political backgrounds. Trouble with BNP is that they are the norm. Surely you don’t want to be linked with a party that seems to be continually led by clapped out nazis. It is hardly honouring to the God revealed in Jesus.

As for having a home, is it necessary? I was a member of one of the major parties for15 years. I can no longer in conscience belong to that party. I still work for the causes I believe in but I do not know whether I will belong to a political party again.

Please put Christ ahead of racism!

64

Paul Martin 04.29.10 at 6:29 pm

Taking up Kim’s well made poin, I love the parable of the good Samaritan. It is just so full of insight. Notice that the Samaritan is to most Jews suspect both racially and religiously. The parable doesn’t so much tell us to be tolerant of those of other faith and race. It tells us that they can often be the very people who help us and meet their needs. More than that we see Jesus revealed in the one of other race and other faith.

Please think about this!

65

Nick Baker 04.29.10 at 10:25 pm

At the risk of sounding irreverent I thought I was going to be heckled by militant Methodists!

You both make fair and pertinent points with regard to Christianity and politics. (As I write this I have been listening to the Prime Ministerial Debate - spectacularly unimpressive).

You quote the parable of the Good Samaritan, and not without reason. Does that mean that we should accept everybody who knocks at our door? On a personal level would that mean that my already overcrowded house (two beds., three kids + me and the staff) should become open house? Is there any point at which a Christian could say “Hang on, you’re eating me out of house and home here, would you mind awfully moving next door until I’ve restocked my larder”?

Anyway, just returned from a BNP meeting in Bideford. Fine chaps and chapesses the lot. Not a shaved head or jackboot in sight. Not the image that UAF mob on Monday night expected. “Nazis, fascists, bootboys, Holocaust deniers, Hitler worshippers, thugs” etc.

66

Richard 04.29.10 at 10:43 pm

>> “Fine chaps and chapesses the lot. Not a shaved head or jackboot in sight.”

But, to quote Spurgeon, “A hog in a silk waistcoat is still a hog”.

67

Paul Martin 04.29.10 at 10:55 pm

Would that there such militant atheists.

You misunderstand the point re parable of good samaritan. It is not about the details of immigration policy although it is inconsistent with a discriminatory one. It is not about whether you house should be added to in numbers. It is instead about embracing diversity and amazingly the Christ figure is the foreigner/person of other faith.

I have given you but a small bit of the evidence I possess re the dark side of the BNP. Indeed I give you one more shocker concerning a BNP candidate in Croydon which is so sick that any other party would sack the candidate

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/topstories/8124897.BNP_candidate_sends_hate_mail_to_rival/

I have shown you that Tyndall ( the founder) was a hardline Nazi, that the 2 Euro MEPs Brons and Griffin come from neo nazi backgrounds the latter even assuring the KKK including a Grand Wizard that he is still as one with them even though he has to change the tactics. I could have shown you some of the shocking stuff re Mark Collett who until the past month was in charge of publicity for the BNP, a man who is on record applauding Aids because it kills blacks, gays and drug users.

And belive you me the list could go on and on. I fail to see how you can reconcile these characters with humanity let alone Christianity. Like Kim I believe that choice to be no less that an issue concerning eternal salvation. I have encouraged you to pull out of the BNP for the sake of human decency and more importantly the gospel. I will go on praying that this may happen whether you want it or not.

Finally you speak of your high opinion of the Bideford members of the BNP. I cannot comment on that as I do not think I know any of them. I just remind you that if that be so they still face the heavy responsibility of letting poisonous characters such as Griffin peddle their unremitting race hatred.

I have done my best but I see that are at present neither willing or able to take a gospel stance on this matter. What a shame!

68

PamBG 04.29.10 at 11:45 pm

At the very heart of the Gospel message is the truth that God has no favourites. Racism’s core message is precisely a message of “favourite people” and is therefore about as anti-Gospel as you can get. As a Christian minister and an immigrant British citizen with Mediterranean ancestry, I certainly wouldn’t be self-hating enough to vote for the BNP. It is despicable and disgusting the way the BNP has tried to cloak itself in the mantel of Christianity. True Christians do not discriminate against their fellow human beings.

69

Paul Martin 05.03.10 at 10:39 pm

I did a google search on the guy whom Mr Baker admitted was racist. Mr Baker was not sure he was in the party anymore. In fact the BNP website reports a speech by the relevant character Dr Phil Edwards ( apparently nobody seems to know details of his doctorate) to the Wrexham BNP in glowing terms - October 2008!

I have spent an evening researching the BNP and need a shower cos I feel rather dirty! What shocks me most is their duplicity!

70

Kim 05.04.10 at 7:28 am

Fear and hatred are usually the bastard children lies.

71

Paul Martin 05.04.10 at 10:29 pm

Mr Baker pulled out of Torrington hustings this afternoon. Plenty of Hope not Hate people present who were previously unknown to me. I gather two candidates were unlikely to share platform with the BNP.

72

Richard 05.04.10 at 10:42 pm

Pulled out of the hustings, but not the election? That would have been a result.

73

Paul Martin 05.04.10 at 10:56 pm

O out of 5 attendance at hustings.

Non existent campaign. Hopefully non existent voters.

I’d love to think he’d changed his mind but I can’t say I am optimistic.

74

Paul Martin 05.04.10 at 10:57 pm

I was told he pulled out concerning baby sitting arrangements but obviously he can conform or deny that.

75

Richard 05.05.10 at 7:25 am

It has to be said, his defence of the BNP here seemed a bit half-hearted to me.

76

Paul Martin 05.05.10 at 8:40 am

Yes I think he may well be a man riddled with some doubts. If so I hope he finds a new direction. Where I cam from the NF Parliamentary candidate eventually ended up in mainstream politics and left the association with racists behind. I would wish the same for Mr Baker.

77

Kim 05.05.10 at 10:30 am

The truth causes cognitive dissonance, but it sets you free.

78

malc 05.06.10 at 12:44 am

“On a personal level would that mean that my already overcrowded house (two beds., three kids + me and the staff) should become open house?” - and the staff… did he not trust one of them to watch the kids?? I presume that these are electorial staff to help with his campain and you’d have thought making sure their canditate could do some campaining would be in their job description.

I will admit, considering the central theme of love that runs through the Gospels I honestly am surprised that someone could try to reconcil the Love of God and the hate of the BNP. Well, try and succeed on a level that they were personally happy with their choice with the BNP.

79

GYPSY GIRL 05.06.10 at 4:06 pm

Strange, 2 days after his comments, he was “sick” and unable to attend Holsworthy either. Scared of the Orchards were we? I mean the whole town (over-) run by law abiding Romani!
Either he has to decide on whether he is too sick to be a politician or arrange better childcare.

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