The Calvinist Dilemma

by Richard on October 19, 2010

Shamelessly stolen from xenos theology, to whom thanks:

A calvinist arrives at Heaven’s gates and sees that there are two queues going in. One is marked “predestined,” and the other is marked “free will.” Being a good calvinist he wanders over to the predestined line. After a few minutes an angel asks him, “why are you in this line?” He replies, “I chose it.” The angel looks surprised, “well then, you should be in the free will line.” So our calvinist, now slightly miffed, obediently wanders over to the free will line. Again, after a few minutes another angel asks him, “why are you in this line?” He sullenly replies, “Someone made me come here.”

{ 14 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Kim 10.19.10 at 10:26 am

Yep, grace is irresisistible. ;)

2

Richard 10.19.10 at 11:24 am

And amazing. Don’t forget amazing.

3

dh 10.19.10 at 3:26 pm

If Grace is irresistible then why does Jesus say “….If you deny Me I will deny you before My Father in heavem.”? In fact Jesus says “Not all who say to Me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” also not all have eternal life “He that has the Son has life he that has not the Son has not life.” Just some things to nibble on.

4

Kim 10.19.10 at 4:41 pm

Many thanks for the heads-up, DH. I plumb forgot about these texts. And me, a biblical scholar - how dumb can one be! I’ll write to Jacobus at once and apologise.
Best wishes,
John Calvin
xxx

5

dh 10.19.10 at 4:52 pm

Kim and Mr. Calvin: While I don’t adhere 100% to you I also don’t adhere to the counterpart Mr. Arminian I do adhere to aspects of both. I therefore am a CalviMinian.

Mr. Calvin, while I adhere to predestination, predestination is different than predetermined and one must not project predetermined incorrectly onto the term in Scripture which refers to predestination. Mr. Arminian, while I adhere to the concept that ones confession for Salvation is needed for Salvation, confession must not be looked at in such a way that attempts to diminish God’s own omnipotence.

Mr. Calvin and Mr. Arminian, you both are partly right and partly wrong. You both have gone a little overboard in taking your stance to the wrong conclusions. However, you both are great in explaining very well the aspects that are consistent in Scripture. Therefore I’m both of you without the extremes of both of your views. :)

6

Tim Chesterton 10.19.10 at 6:29 pm

Please don’t let’s start another one of those unwinnable arguments over subjects Christians have been debating for centuries…

7

dh 10.19.10 at 6:51 pm

Tim, I didn’t start it and also I’m not starting a debate. I just thought the analysis I gave kind of spells it out and I would think any of us would agree with what I said. I actually thought you would appreciate the humor in response to the humor from Kim with his “Best wishes, John Calvin”. If you didn’t want to hear anything then Kim shouldn’t have mentioned “Best wishes, John Calvin” in response to my reply. I think my response was rather good and clear as to how I’m NOT fully Calvinist as was propogated from Kim to myself. Tim, maybe the irresistability of Grace is what is an unwinnable subject matter? When that subject matter is brought it begs the question “to what extent” in light of the passages I mentioned. So you can see I did NOT start this. As one can see from the latest two responses in their entirety one can see the proper Biblical understanding of these subjects in light of all of Scripture on the related subject matters mentioned.

8

Tim Chesterton 10.19.10 at 7:56 pm

Please let’s not start another one of those unwinnable arguments about who is responsible for starting an argument…

9

dh 10.19.10 at 8:40 pm

Tim, I have one question: Why are you singling me out? Again, I was assuming for the sake of argument that an argument was started but in fact there really hasn’t been any argument started. You post-modern types are big on asking questions so I thought I would do the same. Tim, only moderns consider questions as starting an argument. Maybe you are becoming more modern than you realize?

10

dh 10.19.10 at 8:42 pm

“If Grace is irresistible then why does Jesus say “….If you deny Me I will deny you before My Father in heavem.”? In fact Jesus says “Not all who say to Me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” also not all have eternal life “He that has the Son has life he that has not the Son has not life.” Just some things to nibble on.”

How is this starting an argument when in fact these are legimitamate questions that is not based on any argument? Isn’t saying Grace is irressitable “starting an argument”?

11

Richard 10.19.10 at 10:58 pm

Relax DH. The post was a joke. The proper response is to smile and maybe joke back…

12

Tim Chesterton 10.19.10 at 11:06 pm

DH, why are you assuming I was singling you out? Read my posts again, and lighten up.

‘Postmodern types’ - wow, that was a low blow!

13

John Lofton 10.20.10 at 8:32 pm

There will be no “free will” believers in Heaven because no one goes to Heaven because of their “free will.” Thus, no “free will” line.

John Lofton, Editor, TheAmericanView.com
Communications Director, Institute On The Constitution
Recovering Republican
JLof@aol.com

14

Kim 10.20.10 at 10:26 pm

We should take John to be an expert on this one: as a “Recovering Republican” he must surely know what it means be totally reliant on a higher power to be delivered from one’s demons.

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